news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

42 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Boris was all over the place but I don't think Starmer did all that well...

On balance I think Boris got away with it - Starmer should of gone for the throat

twitter agrees with you.

[Guest]

Some people: ‘Why does Starmer always go for Partygate and never focus on actual issues?’

Starmer uses all questions to focus on important issues for the NHS.

Same people: ‘Argh. Why did Starmer do that, he needed to attack Johnson!?’

The man can never win. 

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Some people: ‘Why does Starmer always go for Partygate and never focus on actual issues?’

Starmer uses all questions to focus on important issues for the NHS.

Same people: ‘Argh. Why did Starmer do that, he needed to attack Johnson!?’

The man can never win. 

We get it mate, you love starmer. It’s borderline concerning at this point how obsessed you are with him 

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Some people: ‘Why does Starmer always go for Partygate and never focus on actual issues?’

Starmer uses all questions to focus on important issues for the NHS.

Same people: ‘Argh. Why did Starmer do that, he needed to attack Johnson!?’

The man can never win. 

yeah, I thought he was pretty good...but I guess you see what you want to see.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, I thought he was pretty good...but I guess you see what you want to see.

I dunno if he was even that, it was just ok but that’s what PMQs was before Johnson. Asking questions about pertinent issues of the day. This is health week and we’ve had some damning reports on wait times recently so he obviously thought it was the right time to raise it. I fully get that as well. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

23rd.

Have a good time?

Cheers.

We did, just about. Music excellent, logistics a faff. Organisation and vibe lacking. Wouldn't do it again and it's no Glasto. Cave knocked it out of the park of course.

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

and it was pretty dramatic on Monday...148 or whatever it was was a lot more than many expected.

I kept a vague eye on it but must admit to not being fully engaged. It was nice to completely ignore Johnson and the Jubilee for a week.

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, I thought he was pretty good...but I guess you see what you want to see.

He didn’t even mention the VONC Johnson faced and did shite in a few days ago? A huge open goal which would silence the tories. How can that be pretty good. You know it’s bad when u let Ian blackford look better than you 

[steviewevie]

Baz emboldened as he has his bentos back.

[Guest]

I love seeing Keir with a good zinger on the PM. 

[steviewevie]

Maybe Starmer's tactics is to show that he's concentrating on stuff voters are concerned about like health care while the Tories are busy squabbling?

Maybe attacking Johnson on vonc and partygate would get more MPs to fall behind the PM?

Maybe he doesn't want to talk about it too much cause of beergate?

Maybe it suits labour for Johnson to stay put?

They must focus group all this shit. Does anyone care anyway? Looks like Johnson is staying no matter what.

[lost]

Indeed. Corbyn clung on for 3 years after 75% of his MP's said they had no confidence in him. If can position it as pro-EU/Establishment Tories against him and the will of the people like Corbyn did with MP's vs labour members he'll probably hang on.

[squirrelarmy]

The longer he stays the more damage he does to the Tory party. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, lost said:

Indeed. Corbyn clung on for 3 years after 75% of his MP's said they had no confidence in him. If can position it as pro-EU/Establishment Tories against him and the will of the people like Corbyn did with MP's vs labour members he'll probably hang on.

I saw someone on Twitter earlier on say that’s the comparison to make instead of previous Tory leaders. 

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, lost said:

Indeed. Corbyn clung on for 3 years after 75% of his MP's said they had no confidence in him. If can position it as pro-EU/Establishment Tories against him and the will of the people like Corbyn did with MP's vs labour members he'll probably hang on.

Just have to see what happens with polls and these by-elections, not sure much of the electorate are that fired up about EU and Brexit anymore.

[lost]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I saw someone on Twitter earlier on say that’s the comparison to make instead of previous Tory leaders. 

Not particularly difficult to frame either as apparently Tobias Ellwood is one of the ring leaders and he's come out and said the UK should rejoin the single market.

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, lost said:

Not particularly difficult to frame either as apparently Tobias Ellwood is one of the ring leaders and he's come out and said the UK should rejoin the single market.

yeah, but Steve Baker, David Davis and Mark Francois...and all the others...

[steviewevie]

brexit benefit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61734334

[Guest]

 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, lost said:

Indeed. Corbyn clung on for 3 years after 75% of his MP's said they had no confidence in him. If can position it as pro-EU/Establishment Tories against him and the will of the people like Corbyn did with MP's vs labour members he'll probably hang on.

Corbyn also dragged Labour into an awful election result... the question is which is more relevant.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

I saw someone on Twitter earlier on say that’s the comparison to make instead of previous Tory leaders. 

 I'm not sure that's correct. Corbyn never had the support of his MPs from the day he was appointed, so there was no significant change. Boris has lost significant support.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

 I'm not sure that's correct. Corbyn never had the support of his MPs from the day he was appointed, so there was no significant change. Boris has lost significant support.

always felt like temporary support though...don't think he was ever that popular amongst MPs.

[mattiloy]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

 I'm not sure that's correct. Corbyn never had the support of his MPs from the day he was appointed, so there was no significant change. Boris has lost significant support.

It absolutely isn’t correct. Corbyn also lost the VONC and went on the resoundingly win the next members ballot.

But in the centrist echo chamber where many in this rancid thread seem to dwell, all roads lead back to Corbyn. Its a disease. These people are unwell.

 

For context, Corbyn’s net approval rating in the build up to the VONC is not dissimilar to Starmer’s now (-20 ish). The difference is that Starmer would probably lose the member ballot to his eventual challenger. Not a left candidate, as Starmer made a rule change where he rigged the nomination process so that they need double the proportion of nominations Corbyn had in 2015. There also probably arent many members on the left still in the party. So it’d probably come down to him vs Wes Streeting. And he’d lose.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

John McDonnell is on Peston