news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

9 hours ago, steviewevie said:

To be honest, I can't be arsed with your shite. Have a good festival.

Come back Stevie, I miss you. 

[alanr]

https://order-order.com/2022/06/16/read-in-full-lord-geidts-letter-of-resignation/

Resignation letter here, it's damming.

[Kurosagi]

29 minutes ago, alanr said:

https://order-order.com/2022/06/16/read-in-full-lord-geidts-letter-of-resignation/

Resignation letter here, it's damming.

It took him long enough.

[Guest]

 

[Neil]

15 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Now they can be sent to Rwanda, its suddenly outrageous. Just asking why that is?

the uk govt has severely criticised rwanda for some of the things it does (poor law and order, etc) that our refugees are likely to encounter.

[squirrelarmy]

1 hour ago, alanr said:

https://order-order.com/2022/06/16/read-in-full-lord-geidts-letter-of-resignation/

Resignation letter here, it's damming.

The problem is that 95% of the Tory voting demographic won’t read it. I doubt it will be featuring in Murdochs media either. 

[lost]

Its a link to the Guido Fawkes site.

[mattiloy]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

the uk govt has severely criticised rwanda for some of the things it does (poor law and order, etc) that our refugees are likely to encounter.

Rwanda with a comparable violent crime rate to Turkey.

Sure Rwanda is maybe a conservative kind of country relative to the UK and so LGBT refugees shouldn’t be sent there for those reasons but asides from that, the major difference in attitude towards the Rwanda policy and the Dublin agreement is that France is richer than Rwanda.

Ultimately, middle class Brits think that living in Rwanda would be shit for them, if we’re being generous and saying that it’s just from the economic hit that it would entail, then you can say that imagining that relegation in living standards fills them with terror and they project those own sentiments onto migrants. If we’re being ungenerous then you could also argue that there was an implicit racism - ‘oh god no, not Rwanda, that shithole in the middle of Africa’. In either case the behaviour is as if going to live in Rwanda is a fate worse than death. But I’m quite sure that it isn’t.

[Kurosagi]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

 

That's some interesting background, I like this bit (and the irony would be sweet):

These safeguard tariffs can all be linked back to Trump’s trade war, so if Geidt’s resignation brings down the PM we can ultimately blame it all on Donald.

[Kurosagi]

49 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ultimately, middle class Brits think that living in Rwanda would be shit for them, if we’re being generous and saying that it’s just from the economic hit that it would entail, then you can say that imagining that relegation in living standards fills them with terror and they project those own sentiments onto migrants. If we’re being ungenerous then you could also argue that there was an implicit racism - ‘oh god no, not Rwanda, that shithole in the middle of Africa’. In either case the behaviour is as if going to live in Rwanda is a fate worse than death. But I’m quite sure that it isn’t.

I quite like your 'implicit racism' analysis, it's certainly plausible, but then perhaps equally so is the idea that people are just projecting 'distance', I mean it's bloody miles away. If refugees have connections to people in the UK then it makes it a lot easier to maintain those connections from mainland Europe than central Africa? If there are compelling reasons why refugees are spending all their money and putting themselves in danger to get to the UK then it doesn't take much empathy to feel like they're back to square one and have to prepare to undertake their perilous journey all over again...but from 6000 miles away.

[For clarity: don't agree with tory immigration policy past or present, can't say much for Labour's either. Tackling the causes of immigration would be a lovely idea in principle (and should have happened decades ago) but, given that in 2022 we (as in the West) can't even play nicely to prevent a war on our doorstep let alone work together to solve climate issues, then I'm feeling lost in terms of what immigration policy would be fair and work. You got any practical ideas to promote?]

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

That's some interesting background, I like this bit (and the irony would be sweet):

These safeguard tariffs can all be linked back to Trump’s trade war, so if Geidt’s resignation brings down the PM we can ultimately blame it all on Donald.

I don’t understand how this could bring down the PM though?

[Kurosagi]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don’t understand how this could bring down the PM though?

I just assumed it was a 'tipping point' reference, so something similar to Widdecombe's comment that ultimately sunk Michael Howard leadership ambitions.

But yeah, no doubt it'll be another resignation that comes and goes with little impact on Johnson's position.

[Guest]

Ew.

[SheffJeff]

I just wrote a long rant about tonight's Question Time and how pissed off i was with the state of the country/world we live in but deleted it as I couldn't be arsed with anyone arguing that the majority of the (mostly male) audience tonight weren't knobheads.  We need more normal (female it seems) politicians in power whose interest lie in their local community and helping people out rather than the bunch of egotistical knobheads we've got.  The likes of Dorries, Patel & Truss ruin my argument but rant over... if you didn't watch it, don't bother. Depressing stuff.  Really seems we're gonna be stuck with the Tories for a long time.

[Ryan1984]

5 hours ago, SheffJeff said:

I just wrote a long rant about tonight's Question Time and how pissed off i was with the state of the country/world we live in but deleted it as I couldn't be arsed with anyone arguing that the majority of the (mostly male) audience tonight weren't knobheads.  We need more normal (female it seems) politicians in power whose interest lie in their local community and helping people out rather than the bunch of egotistical knobheads we've got.  The likes of Dorries, Patel & Truss ruin my argument but rant over... if you didn't watch it, don't bother. Depressing stuff.  Really seems we're gonna be stuck with the Tories for a long time.

I didn’t watch it but have seen various comments of how supportive the majority were of this government. They really can do what they want and still get the votes.

[Guest]

I get the impression that Johnson would rather just deal with foreign matters and screw everything in the U.K.

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I get the impression that Johnson would rather just deal with foreign matters and screw everything in the U.K.

he doiesn't like being shown as unimportant by the EU.

[charlierc]

I see other members of the world are looking and not judging favourably: The Shameless Farce of Boris Johnson’s Attempt to Send Refugees to Rwanda | The New Yorker

[pink_triangle]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:34 PM, pink_triangle said:

My prediction for response of Boris. Get another photo op with Zelensky, offer some tax cuts for the wealthy, hand out a few knighthoods and peerages and go after a few minorities.

I wasn't too far off!

[Guest]

 

[Kurosagi]

That last point, which I'd forgotten about, is pretty important, no?

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

That last point, which I'd forgotten about, is pretty important, no?

It’s completely fair but Johnson is a maniac so all norms don’t apply to him. 

[zahidf]

 

[charlierc]

10 hours ago, Ozanne said:

 

Setting aside the slight surprise that this week has been termed a success, I would be very surprised if a government whose poll performance has been dreadful all year would go along with this. Especially if they lost both by-elections coming up this week.

[pink_triangle]

8 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

What would be the response from the SNP group if it was a tory or pro Salmond MP?