news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Mick Lynch has done well but he’s no Keir Starmer 😝

yeah, for a start he isn't trying to win a general election.

[Kurosagi]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

early days...he isn't even an MP...I guess they would come out more in any future leadership election...

Yeah, this.

But the very fact that he's saying this out loud to people without any caveats felt like a sea change. Regardless of whether he has a fully formed plan yet he is unequivocally setting out his stall in public and prepared to debate it in Q&A. That's a good start Neil, no? I'll take it.

As for whether the LP will engage...well there's a lot of vested interests in keeping the status quo despite how fucked it is. Cross fingers.

There was warm support for Burnham (and lots of Manchester Qs holding him to account) but it wasn't sychophantic, no GoT related chants.

[Kurosagi]

19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I only saw the one which had Chris Packham and some others talking about autism. Found it very emotional actually.

Wife went to that one and said the same, she was really affected by it and came away with an even stronger love for Chris (as if that was possible).

Saw him and Meg walking along in the Green Futures Field so changed my plans and popped in to see his activism talk in Speakers Forum. It's just like watching him on the telly, he's so bloody articulate. Jealous.

[steviewevie]

A poll.

 

[Neil]

28 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

Yeah, this.

But the very fact that he's saying this out loud to people without any caveats felt like a sea change. Regardless of whether he has a fully formed plan yet he is unequivocally setting out his stall in public and prepared to debate it in Q&A. That's a good start Neil, no? I'll take it.

As for whether the LP will engage...well there's a lot of vested interests in keeping the status quo despite how fucked it is. Cross fingers.

There was warm support for Burnham (and lots of Manchester Qs holding him to account) but it wasn't sychophantic, no GoT related chants.

It's a start, a conversation for reform has to start somewhere, it's going nowhere if not championed by major party. 

[fraybentos1]

28 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

Yeah, this.

But the very fact that he's saying this out loud to people without any caveats felt like a sea change. Regardless of whether he has a fully formed plan yet he is unequivocally setting out his stall in public and prepared to debate it in Q&A. That's a good start Neil, no? I'll take it.

As for whether the LP will engage...well there's a lot of vested interests in keeping the status quo despite how fucked it is. Cross fingers.

There was warm support for Burnham (and lots of Manchester Qs holding him to account) but it wasn't sychophantic, no GoT related chants.

I like Burnham and want PR more than anything but I find his turnaround regarding this over a decade pretty mad. He was vocally against AV in 2011 (yeah I know that isn’t PR but he seemed pretty pro FPTP then) what’s changed? fptp was awful then and it’s awful now 

[steviewevie]

In long term PR would probably mean the end of labour party as we know it..maybe that's why some are against. Same for Tories.

[steviewevie]

we'd end up with forever centrism...with a bit of green and a bit of nationalism thrown in for fun...

[Kurosagi]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

It's a start, a conversation for reform has to start somewhere, it's going nowhere if not championed by major party. 

True, so let's see if the start can build.

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I like Burnham and want PR more than anything but I find his turnaround regarding this over a decade pretty mad. He was vocally against AV in 2011 (yeah I know that isn’t PR but he seemed pretty pro FPTP then) what’s changed? fptp was awful then and it’s awful now

Probably being outside looking in and witnessing the car crash of Johnson is enough to change anyone's mind? There's probably a genuine moment now when BOTH some labour and tory mps are witnessing Johnson and thinking this shit needs to change.

[Kurosagi]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

we'd end up with forever centrism...with a bit of green and a bit of nationalism thrown in for fun...

Likely, and as always 'be careful what you wish for'.

Can't be worse than the last few years can it?!

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I like Burnham and want PR more than anything but I find his turnaround regarding this over a decade pretty mad. He was vocally against AV in 2011 (yeah I know that isn’t PR but he seemed pretty pro FPTP then) what’s changed? fptp was awful then and it’s awful now 

I think he is doing what is politically best for him. There will be huge calls not to pick a white man after Starmer. Burnham needs to make himself stand out 

[Kurosagi]

If PR centrism brings about the abolition of private school privilege monopolising our political system, then I'll endure a dose of nationalism/populism.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

Likely, and as always 'be careful what you wish for'.

Can't be worse than the last few years can it?!

No. In general I am supportive of PR..I think it would just be better for the country as a whole...more representation...but don't think it would be without problems either...

[Kurosagi]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I think he is doing what is politically best for him. There will be huge calls not to pick a white man after Starmer. Burnham needs to make himself stand out

I went to the debate ready to be cynical. Came away thinking it wasn't political manoueverings for himself but a genuine realisation that the penny had dropped and this shit needs to change and now is the time.

But, I was at a festival and my cynicism was firmly locked up in the car park.

[Kurosagi]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

No. In general I am supportive of PR..I think it would just be better for the country as a whole...more representation...but don't think it would be without problems either...

It's a difficult sell too, the media endlessly tell us that Margaret (or whatever the meme's name is) doesn't want another election...and there's no doubt that PR will bring about more elections and protracted time sorting out working coalitions.

Personally I like that, but I admit I'm in a tiny minority.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think he is doing what is politically best for him. There will be huge calls not to pick a white man after Starmer. Burnham needs to make himself stand out 

he's clear favourite at moment just for being an outsider, has done his standing the world of good...especially when doing his rallying cries on the steps of Manchester Library in his North Face....gets people on left all juiced up...

[Guest]

Burnham can’t be the next Labour leader, he isn’t an MP. Plus he’s said he’ll serve his full as Mayor. It’s odd people think he’ll come in anytime soon to lead the Party.

If there is a leadership opportunity in the near future it’ll probably be someone like Streeting or Reeves. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, for a start he isn't trying to win a general election.

I was just messing around.

Mick Lynch has done an incredible job and has been able to win support round for the strikers. But yeah he won’t have the potential pitfalls of trying to win round an electorate. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Ozanne

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Burnham can’t be the next Labour leader, he isn’t an MP. Plus he’s said he’ll serve his full as Mayor. It’s odd people think he’ll come in anytime soon to lead the Party.

Are you admitting that Starmer is gonna lose and be out in 2024 lol

Burnham could be next leader, he just needs to finish his term as mayor and then become an MP again. Nobody mentioned a time frame here. If starmer wins (as you dream about every night) then the vacancy wouldn’t be there till the late 2020s, plenty time for Burnham to become an MP, there are by elections all the time 

[Kurosagi]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Surely wasn't much of a debate with that panel ?  Do they never drop in a random tory 😛 

You are in spirited fishing mode today, I've come across your wind-ups in quite a few threads.

As you well know, LeftField is set up as a left wing talking shop with the explicit strap line to 'recharge your activism'. As we also know from this and other threads, when trolls get involved then precious little debating gets done.

The debate was with the audience and not between the panel, you could have been there and contributed if you wished.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

You are in spirited fishing mode today, I've come across your wind-ups in quite a few threads.

As you well know, LeftField is set up as a left wing talking shop with the explicit strap line to 'recharge your activism'. As we also know from this and other threads, when trolls get involved then precious little debating gets done.

The debate was with the audience and not between the panel, you could have been there and contributed if you wished.

 

He didn’t go to Glastonbury. Don’t bother feeding him, there’s no point  

I was tempted by the Ed Miliband debate but I wasn’t too bothered by it in the end. The Zarah Sultana debate looked pretty well attended which is good for her. 

[Kurosagi]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Are you always this highly strung ?   I wasn't fishing - I thought you would see the comment for the little joke it was.

Always makes me chuckle when trolls resort to ad hominems. That is a little joke.

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

we'd end up with forever centrism...with a bit of green and a bit of nationalism thrown in for fun...

Actually the end result is much more interesting than that. It overweights the smaller parties a bit because their accession to the coalition will be based on key policies getting through. So the major parties - which would still be Labour and Tory - build a coalition by negotiating concessions based on what are the big issues from their partners.

So you end up with a bit of a mixed bag. For example Greens might get some big wins, lib dems likewise, the left party, but the day to day would be Labour. So like Labour but with a few more random radical policies from the small parties. Better imo

[Kurosagi]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The Zarah Sultana debate looked pretty well attended which is good for her.

That was on my list, but it was waaaay too early in the morning by the time saturday night finished.

I do find it odd that in this day and age when it's an easy thing to set up and that the festival always sells out that LeftField don't stream or record the debates.

[pink_triangle]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He didn’t go to Glastonbury. Don’t bother feeding him, there’s no point  

I was tempted by the Ed Miliband debate but I wasn’t too bothered by it in the end. The Zarah Sultana debate looked pretty well attended which is good for her. 

It's good for her, but she is effectively a politician who just preaches to the converted. That may get a decebt social media profile, but won't lead to Amy significant political change.