news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

12 hours ago, Ozanne said:

More Labour policy, a National Care Service to be brought in.

 

 

”Inspired by the creation of the NHS”

 

or…by Jeremy Corbyn 

[mattiloy]

This flurry of policies smells like electioneering. Maybe they anticipate a snap election?

Actually think under the circumstances this one is wise - Labour then going toe to toe with tories in the red wall and conceding to the Lib Dems any europhile soft liberal marginals. Hung parliament here we come.

[Neil]

how many times has labour used "the tories will destroy the nhs" when trying to get elected, how many times has it worked.

[Neil]

to protest against high fuel prices, the smart guys have decided to waste some high-priced  fuel by driving extra unnecessary miles.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Neil

[mattiloy]

I think biggest party would still depend on the campaign though. Starmer would still need to have a very good election campaign to beat Johnson.

No ed stones, no gaffes, lots of passion.

Does he have it in him?

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I think biggest party would still depend on the campaign though. Starmer would still need to have a very good election campaign to beat Johnson.

No ed stones, no gaffes, lots of passion.

Does he have it in him?

corbyn didn't have it in him to beat May.

[Guest]

Bad faith actors: Labour need policies, they don’t have any!

*Labour announce more policies*

Bad faith actors: These policies were someone else’s idea, they sense an election, they aren’t the right policies etc etc.

It’s almost like these people will moan whatever Labour, I knew these people would still moan. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Ozanne

[Neil]

10 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

https://news.sky.com/story/police-warn-of-serious-disruption-to-roads-as-protesters-set-to-target-motorways-over-fuel-duty-12645340

Fuel protests are back...

 

1 hour ago, Neil said:

to protest against high fuel prices, the smart guys have decided to waste some high-priced  fuel by driving extra unnecessary miles.

 

[Guest]

Even more Labour policy.

 

[BobWillis2]

Bad faith actors 😭😭😭😭😭

[BobWillis2]

7 hours ago, Neil said:

how many times has labour used "the tories will destroy the nhs" when trying to get elected, how many times has it worked.

They always conveniently miss out the little bit about PFI contracts crippling NHS trusts and how much responsibility Labour have to take for that.  

[steviewevie]

When is Starmer doing his brexit is shit but our brexit will be less shit than the tory brexit speech? 

[steviewevie]

4 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Even more Labour policy.

 

is this official labour policy...or scottish labour?!

[steviewevie]

Green Party response to Starmer's love of a good hard brexit...

Labour and Tories ignoring disaster of Brexit out of own self-interest, Greens warn

4 July 2022

Responding to the news that Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer is to use a speech today to vow to “make Brexit work”, while ruling out taking the UK back into the customs union or restoring freedom of movement, Green Party co-leader Adrian Ramsay said:

“At a time when the economic devastation caused by Brexit is becoming increasingly clear, and as public opinion is turning against the decision to leave the European Union, it is quite perverse of Keir Starmer to stick his head in the sand and insist he will make Brexit work. 

“This is an idea driven only by Labour’s self-interest rather than the best interests of the country. 

“While businesses are suffering and the permanent fall in the value of sterling means we are importing inflation, making the cost of living crisis worse, the fact that the two main parties are indistinguishable from one another on Brexit is a major failing of our political system and is letting millions of people down.

“The Green Party has already called for rejoining the customs union, which would ease the tensions in Northern Ireland caused by Johnson’s hard Brexit, and for maintaining alignment with EU law and we utterly oppose government attempts to undermine environmental and social protections offered by EU legislation. 

“We believe that the ending of freedom of movement has taken away rights and opportunities from our citizens as well as causing employment crises in sectors as varied as agriculture and social care.

“As Greens, we remain proud Europeans and want to see a close relationship with our European partners and real action to address the economic hardship being caused by the current hardline approach. We believe that our future lies at the heart of Europe and we should not be writing off any chance of becoming a member once again at some point in the future when the conditions are right.”

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

is this official labour policy...or scottish labour?!

It’s both, from the article:

‘Sarwar made clear Starmer was fully signed up to the plan, however.‘

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s both, from the article:

‘Sarwar made clear Starmer was fully signed up to the plan, however.‘

ok...right...didn't actually read article before. So Lords replaced by a senate of the nations and regions...which was in Miliband's manifesto. Sounds pretty goodI guess...although I do like the idea of a 2nd chamber that is undemocratic, but I guess how that works is where it gets dodge, especially with all the hereditary stuff. I guess a 2nd chamber that more reflects all areas of the UK is a good idea, I just don't want them to do things just to get themselves reelected always.

[Neil]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Green Party response to Starmer's love of a good hard brexit...

Labour and Tories ignoring disaster of Brexit out of own self-interest, Greens warn

4 July 2022

Responding to the news that Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer is to use a speech today to vow to “make Brexit work”, while ruling out taking the UK back into the customs union or restoring freedom of movement, Green Party co-leader Adrian Ramsay said:

“At a time when the economic devastation caused by Brexit is becoming increasingly clear, and as public opinion is turning against the decision to leave the European Union, it is quite perverse of Keir Starmer to stick his head in the sand and insist he will make Brexit work. 

“This is an idea driven only by Labour’s self-interest rather than the best interests of the country. 

“While businesses are suffering and the permanent fall in the value of sterling means we are importing inflation, making the cost of living crisis worse, the fact that the two main parties are indistinguishable from one another on Brexit is a major failing of our political system and is letting millions of people down.

“The Green Party has already called for rejoining the customs union, which would ease the tensions in Northern Ireland caused by Johnson’s hard Brexit, and for maintaining alignment with EU law and we utterly oppose government attempts to undermine environmental and social protections offered by EU legislation. 

“We believe that the ending of freedom of movement has taken away rights and opportunities from our citizens as well as causing employment crises in sectors as varied as agriculture and social care.

“As Greens, we remain proud Europeans and want to see a close relationship with our European partners and real action to address the economic hardship being caused by the current hardline approach. We believe that our future lies at the heart of Europe and we should not be writing off any chance of becoming a member once again at some point in the future when the conditions are right.”

Greens ignoring what the UK voted for. 

[steviewevie]

19 minutes ago, Neil said:

Greens ignoring what the UK voted for. 

52%. I expect there weren't many Green voters amongst them.

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, Neil said:

Greens ignoring what the UK voted for. 

and anyway Farage...what they're saying is kind of what Corbyn's labour were arguing for...a softer brexit...in customs union and with a trade deal....although if out of single market then still don't have that freedom of movement and all those fucking Poles.

Anyway, might vote Green now. Plus, I like hedgerows or something.

[BobWillis2]

Christ knows how Carillion managed to go bust because they were a major player when it came to PFI contracts too. 

[Neil]

58 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and anyway Farage...what they're saying is kind of what Corbyn's labour were arguing for...a softer brexit...in customs union and with a trade deal....although if out of single market then still don't have that freedom of movement and all those fucking Poles.

Anyway, might vote Green now. Plus, I like hedgerows or something.

If corbyn wanted that he should have supported May's deal. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

If corbyn wanted that he should have supported May's deal. 

well...yeah...maybe....but I guess labour were hoping that brexit would kill May's premiership...which it did...but then along came Boris. But yes in hindsight May's deal was actually pretty close to labour's original post referendum brexit policy.

[Guest]

We were months away from a 2nd referendum but the opposition parties didn’t hold their nerve and capitulated to Johnson. 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Neil said:

If corbyn wanted that he should have supported May's deal. 

but also...I imagine if May had got her deal through with labour support but not the majority of her own MPs she and her deal probably wouldn't have lasted much longer and we still would have ended up with Johnson as PM and the same brexit. There just didn't seem to be any room for compromise, it was all or nothing, people's vote on one side and hard brexit or even no deal on the other. Whole thing was so stupid in my opinion. I was a remainer but I agreed with Corbyn with the 7/10 for the EU thing...but he got heavily criticised for that...it had to be all or nothing...and we just ended up with bulshit from both sides without an honest discussion about pros and cons of it all, and that maybe we could make compromises and find something that worked best. Anyway, blah blah brexit blah.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

We were months away from a 2nd referendum but the opposition parties didn’t hold their nerve and capitulated to Johnson. 

Maybe. We'll never know how that referendum would have gone though...result might have been very similar.