news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

Just now, fred quimby said:

Do you have the figure the extra 5% brings in to the treasury as I have heard from independent sources say £8b but can not find anything online to back that up. Do you have anything

If it is £8b I doubt the IMF would be saying about that, only in part maybe. They are looking at the whole thing and not just one part.

I personally do not think it should have been cut, very dumb move. I get their argument but disagree with it totally.

I have literally just provided the quote where the IMF state their main issue so it seems they do have a problem with tax cuts for the high earners. 

[lost]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

No, you are making things up now.

I agree with everyone else your a troll now. there's about 2 pages of talk about pension funds and the BOE restarting QE.

[fred quimby]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

I have literally just provided the quote where the IMF state their main issue so it seems they do have a problem with tax cuts for the high earners. 

That includes the NI decrease as well surely. 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

I agree with everyone else your a troll now. there's about 2 pages of talk about pension funds and the BOE restarting QE.

No there isn’t. It’s talk about what the IMF’s issue is, you’ve been proven wrong and now trying to change the narrative/get personal.

On my first post after saying ‘it’s all on the Tories’ I said about the IMF to which you replied. I even shared that just now.

1 minute ago, fred quimby said:

That includes the NI decrease as well surely. 

 

The quote says about tax cuts for high earners. 

[fred quimby]

Just now, Ozanne said:

 

The quote says about tax cuts for high earners. 

Oh dear

[lost]

Just now, Ozanne said:

No there isn’t.

Do you get some weird sexual kick from this? It doesn't make any sense.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, lost said:

Do you get some weird sexual kick from this? It doesn't make any sense.

Go back and follow the conversation and you’ll clearly see it followed on from comments about the IMF.

No need to get personal now.

3 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Oh dear

The report has been shared so I imagine your answer would be in there. 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, lost said:

Do you get some weird sexual kick from this? It doesn't make any sense.

no need for that. He made a fair point, the issue we find ourselves in  isn't the amount of spending on covid, or bailing out the banks in 2008, or spending during WW2, or the amount spent on capping bills this winter...the issue is the unfunded tax cuts. Now maybe they will do what they say and lead to growth, but there is no OBR to back that up, and the markets reacted badly, and then IMF stuck it's lefty oar in there and so the boe had to do their qe thing. And yes other countries have their problems, and yes we have borrowed more in the past. and yes labour might want to borrow or cut spending or whatever hypothetical thing you want to come out with...but the reality is Truss and Kwarteng has fucked it...(and Ozanne isn't a troll just because others have said it and now he annoys you).

[lost]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

no need for that. He made a fair point, the issue we find ourselves in  isn't the amount of spending on covid, or bailing out the banks in 2008, or spending during WW2, or the amount spent on capping bills this winter...the issue is the unfunded tax cuts.

unfunded means going on the national debt. We issue a gilt and someone has to buy it. There is a specific amount of demand for those gilts yes? Nobody has explained why those gilts are worse than the other gilts which are being issued in greater quantities. 

A Singapore hedge fund doesn't go.. i'll buy a gilt being spent on gas but not one where the money should of come from the rich instead.

Edited September 28, 2022 by lost

[sime]

9 hours ago, Neil said:

what country are we going to invade.

Just Downing Street

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

unfunded means going on the national debt. We issue a gilt and someone has to buy it. There is a specific amount demand for those gilts yes? Nobody has explained why those gilts are worse than the other gilts which are being issued in greater quantities. 

A Singapore hedge fund doesn't go.. i'll buy a gilt being spent on gas but not one where the money should of come from the rich instead.

yeah, like I say I failed so I don't know what the fuck you're on about...all I know is how gilt/bonds reacted to the mini budget, and also what happened to the pound...and then what boe did today to save us all from calamity. This was due to Kwarteng's mini budget. You agree with that? Or was it just a coincidence?

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think you can view the unfunded tax cuts as a final nail in a much bigger coffin.  

The idea that covid didn't cause this is for the birds...

We are in a perfect storm of post covid debt & staffing crisis / Brexit / Energy Market crisis / inflation.  The idea none of that leads to today just isn't in any way sensible.  The idea you reverse the tax cuts and it all goes back to okay is for the birds.

What the IMF and others have done is look at our position and look at our plan and rightly call it a turd.  IMF is picking out the tax cut but if you do actually read what is written they refer to our wider budget and fiscal movements.

Bit of simpleton thinking going on here just trying to blame it all on the tax cuts.  Its what happens when you just consume your news from Twitter.  You start thinking in small chunks. 

ok..sure...but apart from looming energy crisis and nuclear war things didnt' seem so bad for UK economy until Kwarteng did his thing. The gilt/bond/pound reaction to his massive mini budget has kind of fucked us.

[lost]

Just now, steviewevie said:

yeah, like I say I failed so I don't know what the fuck you're on about...all I know is how gilt/bonds reacted to the mini budget, and also what happened to the pound...and then what boe did today to save us all from calamity. This was due to Kwarteng's mini budget. You agree with that? Or was it just a coincidence?

Barrys summed it up well. There is a certain amount of demand for our countries debt. When people think its a bad deal and stop buying it the price drops until people think is a bargain and then start buying again. The price has got too low for pension funds to be solvent so the BOE has stepped in and started buying it with money printed out of thin air. To say the last 8bn or whatever is the issue when we've spent £400bn on covid and plan to do maybe another £200bn on gas simply doesn't make any sense.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, like I say I failed so I don't know what the fuck you're on about...all I know is how gilt/bonds reacted to the mini budget, and also what happened to the pound...and then what boe did today to save us all from calamity. This was due to Kwarteng's mini budget. You agree with that? Or was it just a coincidence?

I guess those are points for economists, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Tories have ruined the economy with their mini budget.
 

The IMF stepping in last night is unprecedented for a country like the UK.

[steviewevie]

maybe...if Kwarteng had announced in the budget the cost of payng for capping bills this winter...left taxes how they are for now...maybe we wouldn't be in crisis mode?

[Guest]

A windfall tax would’ve been a good idea. 

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, lost said:

Barrys summed it up well. There is a certain amount of demand for our countries debt. When people think its a bad deal and stop buying it the price drops until people think is a bargain and then start buying again. The price has got too low for pension funds to be solvent so the BOE has stepped in and started buying it with money printed out of thin air. To say the last 8bn or whatever is the issue when we've spent £400bn on covid and plan to do maybe another £200bn on gas simply doesn't make any sense.

and this happened after Friday. It's in the IMF report. It is what most economists questioned. It is what dishi rishi worried about. Adding tax cuts to an already debt burdened economy, a mid range economy which we are now, and has pushed it over the edge. Sunak was a bit of a prick, but he realised this. Truss is a fucking idiot, she and her weirdo ideologues just think cut taxes at any time all will be ok...Reagan did it after all, forgetting the slight differences between US and UK economies then and now.

Edited September 28, 2022 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

But that isn't the case...  We have had a zombie government for months now not dealing with any of these issues.  The market has been pretty patient I think waiting for the UK political system to get it self sorted and make this announcement.  If we had carried on and not doing ANYTHING the same thing would have happened as the markets would of lost patient.

We had to do something - we had to do a mini budget - just not this one.  Its a fucking disaster.  Giving billions to the energy companies costed by borrowing and then giving a tax cut to rich costed by borrowing is the single worse thing we could of done to deal with all the issues within the system - covid / inflation / energy crisis and so on.

ok, well markets were patient, but suddeny for some reason they've given up. Nothing to do with Kwarteng's budget at all.

[lost]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and this happened after Friday. It's in the IMF report. It is what most economists questioned. It is what dishi rishi worried about. Adding tax cuts to an already devt burdened economy, a mid range economy which we are now, and has pushed it over the edge. Sunak was a bit of a prick, but he realised this. Truss is a fucking idiot, she and her weirdo ideologues just thing cut taxes at any time all will be ok...Reagan did it after all, forgetting the slight differences between US and UK economies then and now.

And if you jump out of a 20 story building its the bit between the 1st and ground floor that does the damage.

Clearly if we'd of had no debt borrowing 8 billion would of been swallowed easily.

[Guest]

Funny how the words are presented directly from an organisation yet some will just refuse to acknowledge that those words are there.

They’ll do anything to cover for the mess the Tories have created. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

And if you jump out of a 20 story building its the bit between the 1st and ground floor that does the damage.

Clearly if we'd of had no debt borrowing 8 billion would of been swallowed easily.

ok...but still Truss and Kamkaze thought it would be a good idea to add a load of unfunded tax cuts to the mix. We had loads of debt, let's add more!

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Who do you think here is a tory voter ? You keep saying shit like this but I don't think there is a single Tory voter here.

ever voted tory?

If you or Lost hasn't voted tory I will eat my hat.

[steviewevie]

anyway...pound on the up, thanks to the bank of england the lefty wokers.

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok...but still Truss and Kamkaze thought it would be a good idea to add a load of unfunded tax cuts to the mix. We had loads of debt, let's add more!

Didn't hear you saying this about the corbyn plan to add to the debt 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

Didn't hear you saying this about the corbyn plan to add to the debt 

oh god. wtf