news & politics:discussion

[Zoo Music Girl]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

There’s little point carrying this on so I’ll say I disagree a bit with your assessment.

The policing the thread does get tiresome I agree so hopefully everyone can stop doing that. 

Cool, let's all agree to stop policing what others talk about and that would be some progress!

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Cool, let's all agree to stop policing what others talk about and that would be some progress!

shes says, when doing a bit more policing. 😛 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Cool, let's all agree to stop policing what others talk about and that would be some progress!

Yes that would be nice 😀

[Guest]

Just now, Neil said:

shes says, when doing a bit more policing. 😛 

Is Sting allowed?

[Neil]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Is Sting allowed?

qas long as he doesn't stand too close to anyone.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

shes says, when doing a bit more policing. 😛 

Ha! 

[lost]

I'd be surprised if it stays. It seems another area where the government is out of step with the BOE that the markets won't like. BOE trying to reduce demand whilst the government is increasing it either with tax cuts or big handouts.

Another area the government has a massive problem is even though unemployment is the lowest since the early 1970's and companies can't find workers we actually have less people employed than before covid. There are suggestions lots of people were convinced that covid was a death sentence for over 60's, took early retirement and decided to burn through their private savings in their 50's. Higher payments from the state in their 60's are obviously not going to convince them to stop doing this.

Edited October 19, 2022 by lost

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, OverlyComplicated said:

That's the problem with the Triple Lock it's a very crude way of ensuring pensions don't drop in real terms. Any spike in inflation or earnings has the up side baked in but the subsequent drop ignored, if we keep the triple lock for ever it pensions will only ever increase. 

So with a spike in inflation like the one caused by the Ukraine invasion you do need an above earnings increase but if you scrap the triple lock you can smooth out the spike with lower increases in future. Going into one of the hardest winters in living memory economically it would be cruel to reduce the increases to pensions so scrapping the rises the lock is due now seems wrong but at the same time the Triple Lock is a bad thing an absolutely should be looked at replacing in the long term.

If you end up replacing it in the future aren’t you also then penalising the younger generations that have had less than those elder generation anyway? Because I seriously doubt the government would put in place a better system. 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, lost said:

I'd be surprised if it stays. It seems another area where the government is out of step with the BOE that the markets won't like. BOE trying to reduce demand whilst the government is increasing it either with tax cuts or big handouts.

Another area the government has a massive problem is even though unemployment is the lowest since the early 1970's and companies can't find workers we actually have less people employed than before covid. There are suggestions lots of people were convinced that covid was a death sentence for over 60's, took early retirement and decided to burn through their private savings in their 50's. Higher payments from the state in their 60's are obviously not going to convince them to stop doing this.

I'm sure ditching triple lock would save a lot of money, but would be a big political problem for Truss...although she's on her way out anyway I guess.

[steviewevie]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

If you end up replacing it in the future aren’t you also then penalising the younger generations that have had less than those elder generation anyway? Because I seriously doubt the government would put in place a better system. 

I don't see it hanging around for younger generations anyway.

[lost]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I'm sure ditching triple lock would save a lot of money, but would be a big political problem for Truss...although she's on her way out anyway I guess.

Definitely. There will probably be no generation like the baby boomers existing before or ever again as a voting block. They have defined what this country is and what it will be until they shuffle off this mortal coil. 

I blame Hilter. If everyone hadn't been so excited and happy world war 2 ended they wouldn't have all come home and decided to have sex at once.

Edited October 19, 2022 by lost

[kaosmark2]

8 hours ago, Punksnotdead said:

All these things take time, money, new computer systems, massive increase in staff. I work for 3 local councils. We can't cope with the number of discretionary housing payment claims we have now. Where are all these huge numbers of extra staff we'd need coming from? We can barely recruit people as things are now!

Also, you're expecting millions of pensioners to make claims - some of which are incapable of doing so, do not have access to computers, smartphones, etc. Some of the poorest just will not claim what they are entitled to. This is a fact - there are already 10's of thousands of pensioners who do not claim all they are entitled to - your solution would make this even worse!

I'm not saying some of these things are impossible to sort out - but it is impossible to sort them out immediately. That's why the triple lock has to stay for the time being.

So because we can't implement it immediately we never should?

A plan to phase in appropriate means testing, with support systems for access, and funding coming from removing the triple lock by X date makes sense.

I'm not saying scrap the triple lock this second, but it needs to go at some point.

[Punksnotdead]

5 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

So because we can't implement it immediately we never should?

A plan to phase in appropriate means testing, with support systems for access, and funding coming from removing the triple lock by X date makes sense.

I'm not saying scrap the triple lock this second, but it needs to go at some point.

FFS I never said it should never be scrapped. I just said it has to stay for the time being.

This government are talking about scrapping it immediately (well, presumably April 2023), which would result in 100's of thousands of pensioners suffering massively.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, OverlyComplicated said:

So the current system is crap but you have no confidence in anyone, even the Starmer Labour party to come up with a better one so we keep this one just in case. The triple lock isn't something set by God it's a stupid George Osborne gotcha that was supposed to ensure his client pensioner vote whilst making Labour look bad when they'd have to scrap it when it became unaffordable. Gideon didn't reckon on over a decade of Tory power so it might be on them to scrap it. Tough it's a shit policy and we can do better.

It's not about future generations of pensioners losing out it's about a sensible conversation about how we deal with what is going to be an increasingly elderly population.

No no, I didn’t mean I have no faith in any government, I meant I have no faith in current government to put something better together. So considering they are going to be in power for another 2 years I feel it’s best to keep the current system.

If another system was proposed by another party then I’d look at the detail to see if it’s better. But there isn’t another proposal for the foreseeable future just restrict how much pensioners would have in the CoL crises. We should look to protect everyone in this crises, I’m amazed that’s become such a contentious point. 

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

The current Labour policy is to maintain the Triple Lock until we can put in place a guaranteed minimum of £200 per week.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, OverlyComplicated said:

It's contentious because the more people reflexively defend "the triple lock" rather simply the situation for those pensioners who are struggling then the harder it is for anyone to replace the triple lock with something better and ultimately it needs replacing.

We'll need to wait and see what Jeremy Hunt de facto PM proposes, it'll almost certainly be shit and then we can attack the specifics of it but getting uppity at the suggestion that the triple lock might need to be binned doesn't help the conversation because in the end it needs to be dropped at some point.

I was arguing the point we need to protect pensioners, I don’t think that’s ‘uppity’ at all. In fact it’s probably needed at this time instead of getting angry at those suggesting we keep it to ensure that through the crises those people have money to help themselves.

Without a better option taking away parts of the triple lock in the current crises seems very callous to me. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Sounds like Labour are rethinking it as well then.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Sounds like Labour are rethinking it as well then.

I think a double lock or whatever is more reasonable. There needs to be some unpopular decisions made in the coming years anyway with things like social care for oldies. May tried this in 2017 and it basically lost her the election though. Aging population, less working folk, less people having kids. Does not bode well for the future.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Sounds like Labour are rethinking it as well then.

I don’t think so Jonathan Reynolds has said they will maintain it. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Ozanne

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I think a double lock or whatever is more reasonable. There needs to be some unpopular decisions made in the coming years anyway with things like social care for oldies. May tried this in 2017 and it basically lost her the election though. Aging population, less working folk, less people having kids. Does not bode well for the future.

Yeah I agree. Tough decisions ahead. It is electoral suicide though.

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Sounds like Labour are rethinking it as well then.

sounds like they don't know what to do and would rather just talk about how shit the govt is.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I don’t think so Jonathan Reynolds has said they will maintain it. 

Why's Lisa Nandy not saying that then.

Soon enough Labour won't be backing the Triple Lock and you'll be saying it's the right thing to do cause that's just what you do. Even though now you are making out anyone questioning the triple lock is wanting poor pensioners to be shot in the street. Soon as it is Labour policy you will back it 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

sounds like they don't know what to do and would rather just talk about how shit the govt is.

I mean... fair.