news & politics:discussion

[kaosmark2]

28 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

When myself and my friends have dealt with 85% rent increases over a 4 year period, it's very hard to feel sympathy for 7%.

Not impossible, and I'd still vote against it, but this will have zero resonance publicly. Absolutely zero. Private renters are facing 15-25% in a year, homeowners are seeing 12% increases in mortgages. Most people will look at that and think "wow, jealous it's that little".

Is it too much for the poorest in today's economic climate? Yes, but it's still comparatively marginal to everything else.

[steviewevie]

Today's the day, and we can argue the reason we face this is definitely all Truss or all covid or all brexit or all ukraine when infact it's all of the above...but I stand by the fact that Osborne and Cameron fucked us with the first bunch of austerity in 2010s that went beyond what was necessary and became just a shrinking state exercise for ideological reasons and now there really is fuck all to cut, so we're getting tax rises as well.

(and they are doing this to desperately show the markets that we're not kwarteng crazy anymore - we wouldn't be going so far if hadn't had that market shock from the mini budget that pushed us to the edge last month).

[Guest]

7 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

When myself and my friends have dealt with 85% rent increases over a 4 year period, it's very hard to feel sympathy for 7%.

Not impossible, and I'd still vote against it, but this will have zero resonance publicly. Absolutely zero. Private renters are facing 15-25% in a year, homeowners are seeing 12% increases in mortgages. Most people will look at that and think "wow, jealous it's that little".

Is it too much for the poorest in today's economic climate? Yes, but it's still comparatively marginal to everything else.

How nice and compassionate of you. 

[steviewevie]

just a few weeks ago it was huge tax cuts that were apparently necessary, now it's huge tax rises and spending cuts that are apparently necessary. Be interesting to see how much pain is actually delayed so next govt has to deal with it.

[Guest]

They basically don’t have a clue what they are doing and are making it up as they go along. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

They basically don’t have a clue what they are doing and are making it up as they go along. 

they definitely seem to have ran out of ideas. A smaller state was their thing, and look how that went..and then brexit was their thing and that hasn't exactly turned out that well...so what now?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they definitely seem to have ran out of ideas. A smaller state was their thing, and look how that went..and then brexit was their thing and that hasn't exactly turned out that well...so what now?

Looks like they are falling back on their ‘comfort zone’ of politics so to speak and bringing back austerity. It screams of a party that hasn’t got a vision and needs some time to reassess themselves in opposition.

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they definitely seem to have ran out of ideas. A smaller state was their thing, and look how that went..and then brexit was their thing and that hasn't exactly turned out that well...so what now?

another round of austerity.

[steviewevie]

 

[cellar]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

just a few weeks ago it was huge tax cuts that were apparently necessary, now it's huge tax rises and spending cuts that are apparently necessary. Be interesting to see how much pain is actually delayed so next govt has to deal with it.

The idea was to create growth - a terrible idea mind, but yeah that was the point. I still struggle to accept that it was a genuine attempt, and more just a way to soften people up for whatever comes today.

Definitely agree that showing the markets that we're a serious country with a serious economic agenda is up there on the list of priorities. Hard to say how much less extensive the measures would be without the mini-budget, there was still a gaping financial hole to be filled. Maybe without the mini budget we would have got more measures targeting poorer members of society today? 

I guess I should hold on until we get the details eh.

[Neil]

i wonder how many people on tv will mispronounce hunt's name today, it happens a lot, for some strange reason.

hunt has a problem with names too, he seems to forget who he's related to who has given him huge favours at the county's expense.

hunt, the most corrupt MP there is.

[lost]

Two events in 3 years that cost the country more than world war 2 (covid and the energy price cap) Obviously the price cap was scaled back but it doesn't take a genius to work out why we are here. 

[Guest]

We are here because of Tory mistakes. There was no austerity 2.0 before Truss’ budget and 12 years of Tory rule have meant we are woefully placed to deal with the current issues facing us.

It’s on the Tories. 

[Crazyfool01]

20 minutes ago, lost said:

Two events in 3 years that cost the country more than world war 2 (covid and the energy price cap) Obviously the price cap was scaled back but it doesn't take a genius to work out why we are here. 

And Tory mismanagement during covid and filtering off money to mates during it …. 

[lost]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

And Tory mismanagement during covid and filtering off money to mates during it …. 

Yep. If you let politicians do what they want during a crisis they'll happily go along with something being a crisis.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, cellar said:

The idea was to create growth - a terrible idea mind, but yeah that was the point. I still struggle to accept that it was a genuine attempt, and more just a way to soften people up for whatever comes today.

 

yes...and with zero evidence that it would work...it was just simple right wing free marketer ideology of tax = bad, state = bad...

[steviewevie]

40 minutes ago, lost said:

Yep. If you let politicians do what they want during a crisis they'll happily go along with something being a crisis.

or you know...you maybe expect them to not be dodgy fuckers during a crisis...

[cellar]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes...and with zero evidence that it would work...it was just simple right wing free marketer ideology of tax = bad, state = bad...

Well yeah, that's why I said it was a terrible idea. I was more referencing your own post about what was "apparently" needed, as if you didn't realise why it had been done

[lost]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

or you know...you maybe expect them to not be dodgy fuckers during a crisis...

I don't expect any politicians not to be dodgy. We have certain checks and balances to stop them doing that. Those checks were steamrolled by the covid act. Anyone who suggested maybe some of these things should stay in place was accused of wanting to kill granny.

[Guest]

So 5 weeks ago the Tories were desperately claiming we needed these massive tax cuts and now are desperately claiming we need tax rise/spending cuts. They are clowns that have no idea what they are doing.

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

I don't expect any politicians not to be dodgy. We have certain checks and balances to stop them doing that. Those checks were steamrolled by the covid act. Anyone who suggested maybe some of these things should stay in place was accused of wanting to kill granny.

it's possible to want measures to help limit spread of covid and allow health services to cope, and still require checks and balances...these aren't exclusively mutual, but yeah there was not enough scrutiny into these things, cross parliamentary support at a time of national crisis and all that. Maybe more will come out in an inquiry whenever that happens.

[hodgey123]

Why is the energy price cap going up again? It was my understanding that the cap was based on prior months' prices i.e. what the gas was actually bought for at the time months in advance, which is why it was easily explainable that energy/fuel prices would not immediately drop when the market price does. Haven't gas prices been falling gradually since then so when setting the price cap for April 2023 (i.e. looking back at the last few months), why has the cap gone up?

[fred quimby]

1 hour ago, lost said:

Yep. If you let politicians do what they want during a crisis they'll happily go along with something being a crisis.

I can still point at them and call them c**ts though. 

Now obviously they write these contracts probably without certain clauses (covid or no covid) but fuck it we should be able to recover some of the failed contracts

Edited November 17, 2022 by fred quimby

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

Why is the energy price cap going up again? It was my understanding that the cap was based on prior months' prices i.e. what the gas was actually bought for at the time months in advance, which is why it was easily explainable that energy/fuel prices would not immediately drop when the market price does. Haven't gas prices been falling gradually since then so when setting the price cap for April 2023 (i.e. looking back at the last few months), why has the cap gone up?

I don’t agree with it but it’s because energy firms by their gas in bulk in advance when the wholesale cost was rising.