news & politics:discussion

[pryce]

i fixed my mortgage for 10 years at 3.4% about a 2 weeks before they shot up, the relief was huge, only up from 2.19% as well so only losing roughly 100 a month, which i was over paying anyway

 

in any case i would of extended if i couldnt afford (this never ever get mentioned as an option)

3k on average energy bills ... i was paying 80 a month for gas and electricy, now its like 15, so im just topping up my credit

people need to get off this energy bills are going up 3k for everyone when alot of people dont pay close to that in the first place 

 

[pryce]

im not sure what Ozone wants, no tax, no paying anything back, we angry that the top 125k earners now have to pay more tax meaning their household are worse off? for a Tory budget in the middle of a crisis its not awful and that all we could ask for really.

 

we will be worse off since records began in 1957, well yeah.....we just had a pandemic and there is war in europe...we were hardly going to be better off were we 

[fred quimby]

7 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Because the fix was more than the government help ?   Even with the new £3k average ?

Certainly the Government cap has helped, but am saving over £100 a month since April compared to what they wanted to fix me at. Probably still better off with the 3K. Mild weather has helped mind

Edited November 17, 2022 by fred quimby

[pryce]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The 3K is the average house hold bill.  Its the unit rate which is capped.   

I fixed at 1.6% until 2026 🙂 

1.6% ... what a dream

 

i fixed for 5 years just before they went to 0%, then was coming out of it in 6 months so missed the sweet spot. still i will take 3.4%, now i will just port it and keep the 3.4% on my current loan and have to pay the 5-6% on the rest when i need to move. 

[Guest]

Highest taxes on record on top of highest ever energy bills and highest interests for a decade. What a time to be alive, thanks for the help Tories!

Edited November 17, 2022 by Ozanne

[lost]

Buried in the small print. Fuel duty up 23% in March equivalent to 12p a litre.

[fraybentos1]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Highest taxes on record on top of highest ever energy bills and highest interests for a decade. What a time to be alive, thanks for the help Tories!

Why do you do so many posts in this weird sarcastic tone? 

[lost]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Ouch and electric vehicles now have to pay "road tax".  

Benefit in kind going to 5% too.

[fraybentos1]

49 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

So the decision to freeze tax thresholds, rather than lift them in line with inflation, means millions of people will pay more tax due to “fiscal drag” which is essentially a stealth tax. On top of that it’s looking like council will go up by 5% as councils no longer have to have a referendum on that due to this budget. Plus energy bills going up to £3k a year at least.

This is going to put such a strain on people and is why I said to look at the fine print of the budget. 

Just post the tweet you've pinched that from fs. No one thinks you've ever heard of fiscal drag before today, let alone used it in your own sentence

[cellar]

The scale of impact of financial support (energy price guarantees and cost of living payments) is discussed in the report - real household disposable income (RHDI) is boosted by 4.5% for 22/23 as a result of these measures, and 2.5% in 23/24. So instead of having a drop of 4.8% we were looking at 9.3% (if these measures hadn't been implemented). 

The backdrop to all of this is awful, but its hard to look at what has been announced and think that it could have been much better, especially when you think this is a Tory government. 

Also we've been stealth taxed a few times in the last few years! I think it's probably more significant now given the scale of inflation, and its uncomfortable but necessary. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by cellar

[Guest]

What a great job the Tories have done and keep on doing. Highest fall in living standards on record can be ignored.

It’s always easy mode for the Tories. 

[cellar]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

New Labour was the master of the stealth tax you realise ? 

I guess I was just referencing more recent years to highlight that its not a new thing for this budget, but yes - pretty much every budget will have some form of "stealth tax" if you want to get pedantic 😂

[Guest]

They can literally serve people shit on a plate and people will be ‘well that’s not so bad I was expecting shit and vomit; good job’. 

[cellar]

Most concerning thing the report discusses is our exposure as a result of our levels of debt. Another massive shock to the economy could be catastrophic.

@Ozanne - I don't think anyone is ignoring the fall in living standards, its something we're all living through. We're just discussing the context around it. I know you want to put all the blame on the Tories, but that's not the reality. You can attack them on other things.

[km9]

1 hour ago, pryce said:

im not sure what Ozone wants, no tax, no paying anything back, we angry that the top 125k earners now have to pay more tax meaning their household are worse off? for a Tory budget in the middle of a crisis its not awful and that all we could ask for really.

 

we will be worse off since records began in 1957, well yeah.....we just had a pandemic and there is war in europe...we were hardly going to be better off were we 

Neither is he 

[cellar]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Wasn't really being pedantic to be honest.  It was a big part of Tory attack on New Labour over the years. 

Ah no I know you weren't, I just meant we could go there if you wanted to 🙂 Ultimately just trying to say - stealth tax is nothing new!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, cellar said:

Most concerning thing the report discusses is our exposure as a result of our levels of debt. Another massive shock to the economy could be catastrophic.

@Ozanne - I don't think anyone is ignoring the fall in living standards, its something we're all living through. We're just discussing the context around it. I know you want to put all the blame on the Tories, but that's not the reality. You can attack them on other things.

Come on, if the biggest fall of standards ever happened under Labour people would be up in arms about it but instead because it happened under the Tories people are trying to skirt around the issue and pretend that it isn’t actually that bad.

This has happened under the Tories watch so it is their fault. 

[cellar]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Come on, if the biggest fall of standards ever happened under Labour people would be up in arms about it but instead because it happened under the Tories people are trying to skirt around the issue and pretend that it isn’t actually that bad.

This has happened under the Tories watch so it is their fault. 

I imagine a lot of people would, but that wouldn't make it true anymore than you saying that this is the Tories fault makes it true. Not that it matters much, but I argued with the same conviction against people that tried to blame Labour for the 2008 crash. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, cellar said:

I imagine a lot of people would, but that wouldn't make it true anymore than you saying that this is the Tories fault makes it true. Not that it matters much, but I argued with the same conviction against people that tried to blame Labour for the 2008 crash. 

In my view it is true and I do blame them. I’m not going to let them off the hook when they have blamed everyone else for the last 12 years. As you say they did the same for Labour so they don’t get it easy when things go wrong under their watch either.

[cellar]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

In my view it is true and I do blame them. I’m not going to let them off the hook when they have blamed everyone else for the last 12 years. As you say they did the same for Labour so they don’t get it easy when things go wrong under their watch either.

Well I don't think there is anything I can say that will change your mind, but that's just not the kind of reasoning I can get on board with. You're basically saying that because people blamed Labour for something that wasn't their fault, then it justifies you blaming Tories for something that isn't their fault. 

The OBR report specifically discusses the impact of global shocks as being the drivers of the country's financial situation, do you disagree with them too?

I guess another question to ask is, what do you think Labour would have done differently on this budget? Let's say after the mini budget, a GE was called and Labour got into power, how would they have handled it better? That's the question I ask myself to try to gauge how good I think the budget is, and I struggle to think of any specifics I would change to any great degree.

[tigger123]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

They can literally serve people shit on a plate and people will be ‘well that’s not so bad I was expecting shit and vomit; good job’. 

 

4 hours ago, mattiloy said:

 

This seems to have been glossed over/ missed by Ozanne, funny that. Care to comment on this please given your ranting all day? If Labour and Saint Keir are planning on keeping these policies in place, why are you slagging the policies off? 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, cellar said:

Well I don't think there is anything I can say that will change your mind, but that's just not the kind of reasoning I can get on board with. You're basically saying that because people blamed Labour for something that wasn't their fault, then it justifies you blaming Tories for something that isn't their fault. 

The OBR report specifically discusses the impact of global shocks as being the drivers of the country's financial situation, do you disagree with them too?

I guess another question to ask is, what do you think Labour would have done differently on this budget? Let's say after the mini budget, a GE was called and Labour got into power, how would they have handled it better? That's the question I ask myself to try to gauge how good I think the budget is, and I struggle to think of any specifics I would change to any great degree.

No that wasn’t my point, I mentioned that as an aside. As I said I believe this is the fault of the Tories for reasons I said the other day, not limited to the fact this budget was only need because Truss’ Tories blew up the economy.

You won’t change my mind on that although I do appreciate the civil nature of your response. 

[Neil]

5 hours ago, hodgey123 said:

Yep some good decisions - I would personally go further on gains/dividends and the windfall tax etc. but every little helps I guess. Politically it should be suicide for them to be adopting so many Labour-like policies but doubt that is how it will play out with the public, so unfortunately will be left for Labour to try and hammer home the message.

the more the tories put in place of what labour might do the easier it is for labour to get elected, cos they can't get attacked from the right for going along with what the tories have done.

[steviewevie]

Ok, not read back, and just looking at headlines...but it seems that we're fucked, we have a bunch of stealthy tax rises mostly aimed at mid/higher earners, and loads of spending cuts that won't come into effect for a few years when maybe the recession is behind us...so even when things start improving things will remain shit. Hunt blamed external factors, OBR not so much.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, not read back, and just looking at headlines...but it seems that we're fucked, we have a bunch of stealthy tax rises mostly aimed at mid/higher earners, and loads of spending cuts that won't come into effect for a few years when maybe the recession is behind us...so even when things start improving things will remain shit. Hunt blamed external factors, OBR not so much.

what did he say about benefit increases, is it going to be an inflation-rate-based rise?