news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

Just now, kaosmark2 said:

While cutting taxes elsewhere. We need that invested in public services, not giving the middle classes more to spend on luxuries.

Ok, I’m not sure how’s that linked to any authoritarianism but Labour have plans to invest more on public services.

[kaosmark2]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

You basically dislike anyone who earns more than you don't you ? 

Maybe you should have tried harder at school ?  Maybe blame yourself for being poor instead of hating on anyone who did well and worked harder.

Lot of assumptions there. Also wrong ones.

I want a society that means that my privilege is the bare minimum. It's not about punishing people for being successful, but an actual meritocracy relies on positive opportunities for everyone, not just a select few.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

also....Baz Fish is a tory trolling c**t of a w*nkstain.

[kaosmark2]

11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

So you are a member of the middle class asking for yourself to be taxed ?   

The idea the middle classes are having a lovely time is for the birds for many reasons.

I'd rather pay more tax and be able to actually get a gp appointment yeah.

Most members of the middle class who are squeezed have overstretched their budget, 3 holidays, max mortgage, 2 cars on finance. Not saying it's easy, but the complaints about public services need to be funded somewhere.

Edited November 25, 2022 by kaosmark2

[Guest]

Under the Tories our taxes have risen to the highest they’ve been for a century and our public services are worse off. 

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'd rather pay more tax and be able to actually get a gp appointment yeah.

Most members of the middle class who are squeezed have overstretched their budget, 3 holidays, max mortgage, 2 cars on finance. Not saying it's easy, but the complaints about public services need to be funded somewhere.

Yeah but, the squeezed middle.

[cellar]

Whats the definition of middle class, sorry? I'm not sure what we're working with here. If we're talking purely from a financial perspective or...

Also @Barry Fish - can you respond to my question?

[kaosmark2]

28 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

A lot of unfair attacks really.  Most people have little options on some of that stuff.  House prices are what they are and people need cars to get to work.  Buy this stuff also fuels the ecconmy.

A middle class person really isn't that much ahead of a working class one.  You are taking aim at the wrong people. 

Mortgages are massively lower than rent, even after Kwarteng. And a lot more of the middle classes are doing WFH which reduces need for multiple cars.

I mean, it's a scale, and gradient, not a completely discrete distribution of people, but if we, as society, want better public services, we need to understand that it comes from our luxuries.

[cellar]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Pension pots are fuelled by shares / dividends etc.   Doesn't take a genius to work it out.  Not here to spoon feed you lol

Yes, but the majority are held in tax efficient wrappers that would protect them from any wealth taxes that affect dividends or CGT. 

Maybe it's you who needs to be spoon fed 🙂

[cellar]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its basically anyone who owns a semi detach or better 😛 

Ahh okay, definitely not me then!

[steviewevie]

Shit. I'm not middle class. I thought you just needed to read the guardian.

[Guest]

Notice now it’s middle class people that are the problem? It’s never the Tories. 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[cellar]

24 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Well if big balls Starmer is going to tax wealth - and he directly suggested dividends and CGT - them maybe those wrappers won't be so tax efficient in the future.  If he isn't lying of course...

Think monkey, think

Well, as I said in my original post - "unless you're talking about pension-specific changes"...

Maybe you don't really understand the structures that exist around tax efficient saving - just to explain to you a little bit, to change the mechanics that surround pension wrappers would be an administrative, economic and political nightmare, nowhere near in the same league as adjusting dividend and/or CGT taxes. Like nowhere near 😂

You can just concede that your original statement wasn't very well thought through and move on, if you like 🙂 

[cellar]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

My original statement was just fine 🙂. The fact I haven't spoon fed you stuff is giving the dog a bone and i find it highly amusing 😄 

I wish I knew what that meant! 

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Loads of the middle classes rent... Loads of the working class have mortgages...  You have very blinkered view of the world.

We only have so many houses you fruit cake.  People need to live somewhere and its largely out of the average joe hands how much housing costs.  Pretty much everyone outside of a terraced house in Wigan is going to cost a serious packet.  

You just sound jelouse to be honest.  We can't all have nice things and its not my fault you don't do enough to get them.  Start blaming ourself and take responsibility. 

Actually, which residences address built is as choice of capitalists, who choose the most exploitative option.

Every socialist is painted as either jealous or a champagne socialist by centrist dads. I genuinely don't care about your accusations of bitterness

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

This would be delicious. 

[Guest]

 

[Crazyfool01]

Accepting it slowly now …. Wonder how long it will take for uturns on this ? Backed into a corner now both main party’s …. Momentum shifting … maybe one more parliament after this and then the campaign to rejoin ? 

 

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Accepting it slowly now …. Wonder how long it will take for uturns on this ? Backed into a corner now both main party’s …. Momentum shifting … maybe one more parliament after this and then the campaign to rejoin ? 

Reversing brexit is going to be a bit harder than letting some time pass, it'll require the sort of campaign that corbyn bottled having. 

If Labour members hadn't put a leaver in charge of the party things might have turned out better. 

 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

 

Agree but time is what will show the electorate how damaging the mistake is when it hits their pockets and standards of living start to drop 

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Accepting it slowly now …. Wonder how long it will take for uturns on this ? Backed into a corner now both main party’s …. Momentum shifting … maybe one more parliament after this and then the campaign to rejoin ? 

 

Tory ERG and Farage types go into meltdown if anyone mentions even a shit load of deals like Switzerland has, think it will take a long time...but yeah, if govt wants growth than probably going to have to be closer ties...and probably more freedom of movement...