What makes a Pyramid headliner? (Geek alert)

[Matt42]

Just now, Hugh Jass said:

A good question, I would say they're still current as they are still releasing albums that sell incredibly well and still considered "relevant" in popular culture. I'd say Blur and Radiohead have tipped over into heritage acts.

There's no hard and fast rule, but I'd say when an act's best and most beloved work is from a couple of decades ago then they have tipped into heritage. Doesn't mean they're not still making and releasing music, but how many at The Stones for instance were grooving off Doom and Gloom? (They should have because it's a fucking great tune)

The reason I say why they may be baby heritage bookings is what bands from the early 2000s are still releasing massive records? Also, the kids of today like Coldplay and Arctics (and I’m talking 15-18 year olds here), which I think is quite rare. They are both showing the early signs of heritage.

I think what’s interesting about the Arctics is they can take long breaks now and come back exactly where they left off.

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

 

Biffy subbed already since making headline status elsewhere. They're out of the bin.

They're in the Pyramid shaped bin and they're only coming out when it's time to take the bag out and lob it over the fence into the Other field.

[dentalplan]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

The reason I say why they may be baby heritage bookings is what bands from the early 2000s are still releasing massive records? Also, the kids of today like Coldplay and Arctics (and I’m talking 15-18 year olds here), which I think is quite rare. They are both showing the early signs of heritage.

I think what’s interesting about the Arctics is they can take long breaks now and come back exactly where they left off.

Coldplay are heritage. I would have said Arctics are, but then there were all those people dismayed by the new tunes last time out. If a band releases a weird new album and people actually give a shit, it probably means they're still a current act. 

[dentalplan]

Almost forgot.

@jimmillen

 

[Hugh Jass]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

The reason I say why they may be baby heritage bookings is what bands from the early 2000s are still releasing massive records? Also, the kids of today like Coldplay and Arctics (and I’m talking 15-18 year olds here), which I think is quite rare. They are both showing the early signs of heritage.

I think what’s interesting about the Arctics is they can take long breaks now and come back exactly where they left off.

I think the key difference is that heritage acts, by nature, tend to trade off nostalgia - here are the songs that you loved when you were younger. There's an element of that with Arctic Monkeys, but people still seem genuinely interested in their new stuff. Coldplay are just massive and never seem to fade.

Would agree though that there are only a few acts rom that era (Muse are another) who have managed to stay relevant. I'd place the The Strokes for instance firmly in heritage, they just turn up, play their first album pretty much in full, chuck a few more singles in then bugger off.

[kalifire]

I’d say Coldplay are in the current/heritage transition phase, with one foot in each camp.

[Hugh Jass]

Look over the last decade and almost every festival, with the exception of 2016, falls into the New/Current/Heritage routine.

2011 - Beyonce/Coldplay/U2

2013 - Mumfords/Arctics/Stones

2014 - Arcade Fire/Kasabian/Metallica

2015 - Florence/Kanye/The Who (slight caveat as Flo was bumped up last minute)

2017 - Sheeran/Foos/Radiohead

2019 - Stormzy/Killers/Cure

2020 - Kendrick/Taylor/Macca

[blutarsky]

13 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Yeah, and I think this is reflective of Glastonbury's repositioning as a mainstream cultural event. The festival needs really big names to get the headliners to ensure the demand for tickets. I'm not saying that's a positive or negative development, but it's definitely something that is considered more these days than in the 80s/90s

Since tickets sell out months before headliners are announced, I don't think this holds true tbh...

Edited May 25, 2021 by blutarsky
typo

[jimmillen]

11 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Almost forgot.

@jimmillen

 

Hah hah, run out of upvotes but guilty as charged in this case 😂

[Mardy]

3 minutes ago, blutarsky said:

Since tickets sell out months before headliners are announced, I don't think this holds true tbh...

The 'golden ticket' factor is a huge part of Glastonbury's marketing/attraction. They need it to sell out in record time every year, they need those facts about tens of thousands of people being disappointed, those articles etc. If demand ever starts to drop, and tickets become easily obtainable, I think it will be a vicious circle, and aside from the hardcore regulars on here etc, casual demand will drop off very quickly, TV will be less interested, it will fade from the mainstream to a certain extent.

It is, these days, an essential part of the modern day Glastonbury mythology

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, Mardy said:

The 'golden ticket' factor is a huge part of Glastonbury's marketing/attraction. They need it to sell out in record time every year, they need those facts about tens of thousands of people being disappointed, those articles etc. If demand ever starts to drop, and tickets become easily obtainable, I think it will be a vicious circle, and aside from the hardcore regulars on here etc, casual demand will drop off very quickly, TV will be less interested, it will fade from the mainstream to a certain extent.

It is, these days, an essential part of the modern day Glastonbury mythology

Very true.

For all the greatness of Glastonbury that we all know and love, the mainstream cultural conversation is usually dominated by three acts (four if there's a particularly juicy legend playing).

[Matt42]

I do think as well Emily is really going after artists that wouldn’t have played the festival like 10 or so years ago. Acts like Kendrick / Taylor have very rarely given glasto a look at.

[Hugh Jass]

Just now, Matt42 said:

I do think as well Emily is really going after artists that wouldn’t have played the festival like 10 or so years ago. Acts like Kendrick / Taylor have very rarely given glasto a look at.

Ten years ago Jay-Z had headlined and Beyonce was just about to. Kylie had also been booked but had to pull out.

[blutarsky]

1 minute ago, Mardy said:

The 'golden ticket' factor is a huge part of Glastonbury's marketing/attraction. They need it to sell out in record time every year, they need those facts about tens of thousands of people being disappointed, those articles etc. If demand ever starts to drop, and tickets become easily obtainable, I think it will be a vicious circle, and aside from the hardcore regulars on here etc, casual demand will drop off very quickly, TV will be less interested, it will fade from the mainstream to a certain extent.

It is, these days, an essential part of the modern day Glastonbury mythology

I disagree - I think these days people are obsessed with 'event culture' - were you at a thing, did you get a selfie there etc. I don't think the headline act really impacts on that, especially when 200,000 people go home talking about the incredible things they saw and did besides the headliners.

This kudos of being at the festival and getting a golden ticket, plus the BBC coverage, means I can't see Glastonbury struggling to generate enough hype to fuel the following year's ticket sales for the foreseeable future. 

[st dan]

I think a big issue that Emily and co will have in the coming years is that as the pool of ‘Heritage’ acts start to drop off, they will eventually be replaced by those in the ‘Current’ category in the years to come. However there is going to be a crossover period between the two stages of this. Booking Arcade Fire in 2030 for example - unlikely to still be a big enough current band, and not sure if enough time will have passed for them to be Heritage yet. Same goes for many in the category: Adele, Sheeran etc. 

So they’ll be forced to dip into bumping up newer acts more regularly, as they won’t want to be booking to carousel of current bands we see every year from most of the other big festivals. So we are likely to see an ever increasing number of ‘unconventional’ bookings in years to come, simply through necessity than anything else. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by st dan

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Ten years ago Jay-Z had headlined and Beyonce was just about to. Kylie had also been booked but had to pull out.

😛 this is exactly my point.

Jay-Z and Beyoncé started a rolling trend where huge American acts suddenly considered Glastonbury worthy of their time. The more that the festival booked the more that wanted to show up. You can see a clear trend in bookings like this since Jay-Z, but even after Jay it was a slow trajectory that only really got going after queen bey.

[dentalplan]

17 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Look over the last decade and almost every festival, with the exception of 2016, falls into the New/Current/Heritage routine.

2011 - Beyonce/Coldplay/U2

2013 - Mumfords/Arctics/Stones

2014 - Arcade Fire/Kasabian/Metallica

2015 - Florence/Kanye/The Who (slight caveat as Flo was bumped up last minute)

2017 - Sheeran/Foos/Radiohead

2019 - Stormzy/Killers/Cure

2020 - Kendrick/Taylor/Macca

Arcade Fire as Grammy winners and had headlined Coachella twice weren’t really new. Kendrick and Beyoncé don’t make sense for it either. New to headlining the festival but well into their careers. There is no pattern.

Foos aren’t current either, let’s be real.

[Matt42]

3 minutes ago, st dan said:

I think a big issue that Emily and co will have in the coming years is that as the pool of ‘Heritage’ acts start to drop off, they will eventually be replaced by those in the ‘Current’ category in the years to come. However there is going to be a crossover period between the two stages of this. Booking Arcade Fire in 2030 for example - unlikely to still be a big enough current band, and not sure if enough time will have passed for them to be Heritage yet. Same goes for many in the category: Adele, Sheeran etc. 

So they’ll be forced to dip into bumping up newer acts more regularly, as they won’t want to be booking to carousel of current bands we see every year from most of the other big festivals. 

But IMO. I don’t think they will. A few years ago on this forum people were saying the festival would be in a position where they would have to give headline bookings to acts like Foals, Biffy etc. But they haven’t.

New acts come through and Mario Kart their way into 1st place. I know she’s not confirmed but Billie Eilish seems to have made that journey in 3ish years. Dua Lipa is on her way, and some other UK hip hop stars like Dave could get there too.

In 3/4 years time there will probably be a few artists in contention to headline we are probably not even discussing or know of yet.

[Matt42]

Here’s another one

Is there headline booking going to be an “experience” ? Does it tell a beautiful story?

[st dan]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

But IMO. I don’t think they will. A few years ago on this forum people were saying the festival would be in a position where they would have to give headline bookings to acts like Foals, Biffy etc. But they haven’t.

New acts come through and Mario Kart their way into 1st place. I know she’s not confirmed but Billie Eilish seems to have made that journey in 3ish years. Dua Lipa is on her way, and some other UK hip hop stars like Dave could get there too.

In 3/4 years time there will probably be a few artists in contention to headline we are probably not even discussing or know of yet.

But that’s the point I’m making, they are kind of being forced to choose acts like Billie Eilish or Dave in the examples you used, because they are running out of alternatives, and not necessarily because they want to choose these acts, or that they even deserve it. Making one or two decent pop records shouldn’t really catapult you to Pyramid headline status - but I think it is now likely to in the coming years.  

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Arcade Fire as Grammy winners and had headlined Coachella twice weren’t really new. Kendrick and Beyoncé don’t make sense for it either. New to headlining the festival but well into their careers. There is no pattern.

Foos aren’t current either, let’s be real.

Of course, because when Arcade Fire was announced everyone said "I can't wait to see the Grammy award winners Arcade Fire!"

Foos are the biggest rock band in the world right now by any measure you care to name, and have been for years. They headlined off of Sonic Highways which was a big album and had a documentary to go with it. They were definitely still current in 2017.

[Hugh Jass]

8 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

😛 this is exactly my point.

Jay-Z and Beyoncé started a rolling trend where huge American acts suddenly considered Glastonbury worthy of their time. The more that the festival booked the more that wanted to show up. You can see a clear trend in bookings like this since Jay-Z, but even after Jay it was a slow trajectory that only really got going after queen bey.

Springsteen and Stevie Wonder were in between those two.

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Here’s another one

Is there headline booking going to be an “experience” ? Does it tell a beautiful story?

Adele... beautiful AND sweary.

[Matt42]

Just now, Hugh Jass said:

Springsteen and Stevie Wonder were in between those two.

I’m talking about American acts like Beyoncé, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, Janet Jackson.

[Matt42]

4 minutes ago, st dan said:

But that’s the point I’m making, they are kind of being forced to choose acts like Billie Eilish or Dave in the examples you used, because they are running out of alternatives, and not necessarily because they want to choose these acts, or that they even deserve it. Making one or two decent pop records shouldn’t really catapult you to Pyramid headline status - but I think it is now likely to in the coming years.  

I don’t think they ‘have’ to make them headliners, they are getting there off their own back. They deserve it much more than bands who have plateaued. Acts like Billie Eilish and Dave keep the festival fresh and exciting.