What makes a Pyramid headliner? (Geek alert)

[Matt42]

5 minutes ago, st dan said:

 

“I’ll take them all”. 

Exactly - R&L’s forte 

[Jacksamthompson]

1 hour ago, Euphoricape said:

Would love to see Wolf Alice headline, they were amazing in the live stream and 3 solid albums of awesomeness.

Their Truck headline performance was insane. they a great variety of songs to headline anywhere. 

[Hugh Jass]

12 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

 

Depeche Mode will happen at some point I’m sure. They only tour every 4-5 years or so and eventually they and the festival will align.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Hugh Jass

[found home in 2009]

20 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

While we're at it, what about:

• Imagine Dragons
• The Weeknd
• Post Malone
• 21 Pilots
• Bruno Mars

They're all huge by anyone's standards, but I don't know anyone who listens to their music except children.

I don't know that much about the Weeknd, but based on his Superbowl half time show I think he would smash it out of the park as a Glasto headliner.

[maelzoid]

47 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Depeche Mode will happen at some point I’m sure. They only tour every 4-5 years or so and eventually they and the festival will align.

They have a very reliable cycle of four years. All things being equal we should expect a new album this year, with a tour starting this year into next - with their own shows in the first year and festivals the following year. Covid has certainly impacted this, so maybe a year's delay? That means they're likely to be available in '22, but more likely '23.

[Quark]

53 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Depeche Mode will happen at some point I’m sure. They only tour every 4-5 years or so and eventually they and the festival will align.

Not convinced that DM will ever pop up.  I know @eastynh has delved into this in a bit of detail before, both on why they'd be fantastic but also why it's unlikely to happen.

[Gnomicide]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

• Rihanna - Should have headlined years ago but she’s quit music.

What a time to be alive!

[jparx]

To be honest I think it’s much less complicated than people think. I’d suggest it’s mostly down to feel, looking at availability and budgets and going for what feels best at that moment in time. Emily clearly wants the festival reflect the best of contemporary music, but it’s not always that simple and you end up with situations like The Killers and The Cure headlining together. I think the bigger headache is availability and budgets and not meeting a long set of criteria.

I largely don’t go along with the “they wouldn’t book so and so together at the same festival”. If e.g Emily could book two pop acts or something I’m sure she would, if they’re the right acts at the right budget.

[jimmillen]

29 minutes ago, jparx said:

To be honest I think it’s much less complicated than people think. I’d suggest it’s mostly down to feel, looking at availability and budgets and going for what feels best at that moment in time. Emily clearly wants the festival reflect the best of contemporary music, but it’s not always that simple and you end up with situations like The Killers and The Cure headlining together. I think the bigger headache is availability and budgets and not meeting a long set of criteria.

I largely don’t go along with the “they wouldn’t book so and so together at the same festival”. If e.g Emily could book two pop acts or something I’m sure she would, if they’re the right acts at the right budget.

Oh, I’m absolutely positive that Emily’s not got acts on a spreadsheet like mine evaluating them according to set criteria 😂  

That doesn’t mean there aren’t clues in the data to the kind of acts they’re likely to book though. Although it’s a small sample set & hardly a rigorous statistical analysis, there do seem to be a few trends identifiable.

[stuartbert two hats]

4 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Look over the last decade and almost every festival, with the exception of 2016, falls into the New/Current/Heritage routine.

2011 - Beyonce/Coldplay/U2

2013 - Mumfords/Arctics/Stones

2014 - Arcade Fire/Kasabian/Metallica

2015 - Florence/Kanye/The Who (slight caveat as Flo was bumped up last minute)

2017 - Sheeran/Foos/Radiohead

2019 - Stormzy/Killers/Cure

2020 - Kendrick/Taylor/Macca

Foos more current than Radiohead? They seem pretty close together to me. Radiohead are a funny one. If you made the transition to Kid A, you see them as current, even though half the crowd is there for OK Computer, The Bends and Creep. 

But that's the thing with Radiohead, they don't really trade on nostalgia, most of their sets are from Kid A onwards - which makes sense given there are only two decent albums and a single before that point.

I'm not up on the Foos, but is most of the crowd there to hear their new stuff? Same for Muse - I can't stand anything they've done, but I'm always hearing their old stuff is better.

[stuartbert two hats]

Fuck, I've missed threads like this. A sign normality is returning!

[sameimpala]

2 hours ago, maelzoid said:

While we're at it, what about:

• Imagine Dragons
• The Weeknd
• Post Malone
• 21 Pilots
• Bruno Mars

They're all huge by anyone's standards, but I don't know anyone who listens to their music except children.

no

 yes

yes

yes

yes

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Foos more current than Radiohead? They seem pretty close together to me. Radiohead are a funny one. If you made the transition to Kid A, you see them as current, even though half the crowd is there for OK Computer, The Bends and Creep. 

But that's the thing with Radiohead, they don't really trade on nostalgia, most of their sets are from Kid A onwards - which makes sense given there are only two decent albums and a single before that point.

I'm not up on the Foos, but is most of the crowd there to hear their new stuff? Same for Muse - I can't stand anything they've done, but I'm always hearing their old stuff is better.

I really like Drones which is Muse’s 7th album. I find myself listening to a few songs off there quite a bit. 

[SwedgeAntilles]

2 hours ago, maelzoid said:

While we're at it, what about:

• Imagine Dragons

[sameimpala]

I'd say at least 2 BIG albums, some proven big sets at festivals or their own big tour, so basically george ezra-

[Hugh Jass]

8 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Foos more current than Radiohead? They seem pretty close together to me. Radiohead are a funny one. If you made the transition to Kid A, you see them as current, even though half the crowd is there for OK Computer, The Bends and Creep. 

But that's the thing with Radiohead, they don't really trade on nostalgia, most of their sets are from Kid A onwards - which makes sense given there are only two decent albums and a single before that point.

I'm not up on the Foos, but is most of the crowd there to hear their new stuff? Same for Muse - I can't stand anything they've done, but I'm always hearing their old stuff is better.

I agree that the categories can be a little nebulous and blurry in places (especially for Blur).

My definition of "current" was "acts who are the biggest in their respective genres, who sell out stadia and headline festivals regularly and still sell records". In my eyes the Foos fit this description, they sell out stadia in this country almost every year and the total ubiquity of Dave Grohl makes them still feel current to me. Radiohead tour and release much less these days which makes them feel more like a heritage act in my opinion.

[stuartbert two hats]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I really like Drones which is Muse’s 7th album. I find myself listening to a few songs off there quite a bit. 

I really like A Moon Shaped Pool, but I know that a lot of people stopped listening years ago.

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jass said:

I agree that the categories can be a little nebulous and blurry in places (especially for Blur).

My definition of "current" was "acts who are the biggest in their respective genres, who sell out stadia and headline festivals regularly and still sell records". In my eyes the Foos fit this description, they sell out stadia in this country almost every year and the total ubiquity of Dave Grohl makes them still feel current to me. Radiohead tour and release much less these days which makes them feel more like a heritage act in my opinion.

Not for Blur - they split up years ago and have only released one full band album in the last 22 years. Heritage.

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Not for Blur - they split up years ago and have only released one full band album in the last 22 years. Heritage.

Oh yeah Blur are definitely heritage, just a crack about things being "blurry".

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

Not convinced that DM will ever pop up.  I know @eastynh has delved into this in a bit of detail before, both on why they'd be fantastic but also why it's unlikely to happen.

Depeche talk a good game when it comes to Glasto, but like yourself, I fear their time has come and gone. They should have really done it on their last tour cycle as their profile was higher than it has ever been before in this country, regarding live gigs.

They have some bits written and I would expect an album around this time next year. I live in hope, but if they don't play on the next cycle then I think that's it.

There is a fella on here who knows someone within their circle and has offered good Depeche news in the past (apologies for not remembering who), maybe if he sees our posts, he could offer more insight. I am just a Devotee really.

[jimmillen]

2 hours ago, maelzoid said:

So, according to all this maths, what's the verdict on this lot?

• Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
• Pearl Jam
• Depeche Mode
• The National
• Rage Against The Machine
• Dave
• Rihanna
• Olivia Rodrigo
• Justin Bieber
• BTS
• Eminem
• Imagine Dragons
• The Weeknd
• Post Malone
• 21 Pilots
• Bruno Mars

 

 

OK, let's have a look at this lot then. 🙂

I'm going to break these down using my original categories. 

 

First as "Legends" - some others are using "Heritage" acts which I guess may avoid confusion with the Sunday afternoon Legends slot. Let's stick with calling them heritage.

NC&TBS - Has the back catalogue to do it, but not really quite on the same level as other Heritage headliners. Also has subbed on the Pyramid 3 times, don't see a headline slot happening now.

PJ - Legendary band with success over 3 decades. Great headliner and would follow precedent of bands like Foo Fighters and Metallica. Could easily headline if they want to & if Emily wants them.

Depeche Mode - As above, more than qualified to fill a heritage headliner slot. 

Eminem - Yes he is a heritage act, been around since 1996 and had an undeniable impact on music. Not sure if he'd want to headline and not sure the festival would want him based on previous controversies. On balance I reckon probably not.

Out of these heritage acts Pearl Jam & Depeche Mode are by far the most likely IMO.

Note I'm not working out the albums etc. - I'm lumping acts into the "Legend/Heritage" category when you can take it for granted they have hugely popular albums, tours etc, over at least 20 years.

 

A bit of an anomaly - Rage Against the Machine. Although they've been around for a long time, that's included extended hiatus periods and they only actually have 4 studio albums - the most recent of which was released in 2000! So IMO they are better classified as a cult favourite band than a heritage act.

I don't think data helps us much with RATM. They don't seem an especially good fit with Glastonbury, no new material and more committed to Reading & Leeds perhaps? I dunno, it's an odd one. Thinking probably not, much as I'd love to see them on the farm.

 

Onto the popular acts!

Olivia Rodrigo is too new to headline anytime soon. Her debut album is incredible but no idea of her as a performer yet - crazy to speculate at this stage of her career. Let's see how the next few years go for her. 

Next, acts that have huge commercial success but don't "fit" the festival. These are Justin Bieber and BTS - in both cases you'd probably get a big crowd of under 25s at the Pyramid but everyone else would avoid - I don't think that's what the festival wants for Pyramid headliners. I'd question whether either act would want to perform to an indifferent festival crowd - they would probably prefer to sell out stadiums full of their own fans.

Now it gets interesting (sort of 😆). Acts where the data might actually be relevant. Here I have dug into the spreadsheet again, I clearly needed something to do on my lunch break.

Dave - would be bucking the trend according to the data, but OTOH would be following Stormzy's trajectory from Other sub to Pyramid headliner. Possible but IMO unlikely.

Rihanna - huge back catalogue, absolutely ridiculous commercial success, until I looked at her discography I had no idea just how successful she was. If she wanted to return to music & do the festival I reckon Emily would have her booked in a heartbeat. Big if there though! Again, possible but unlikely.

Imagine Dragons - probably a bit of a jump to headline the Pyramid, their previous performance was 4th down on the other. Data suggests unlikely to happen.

The Weeknd - another astonishingly successful performer, multiple no 1 albums and singles, critically acclaimed. Could definitely headline if he & the festival want to make it happen.

Post Malone - he's actually had more albums and chart success than I realised, with 2 top 5 albums in the UK and 3 in the US. This is a bit weak though compared to past performers whose Glastonbury debut has been as Pyramid headliner. I don't see it happening.

21 Pilots - as above really, they've never played the festival before and their popularity doesn't seem to warrant a debut Pyramid headline slot. As others have said, also more of a R&L act than Glastonbury.

Bruno Mars - another megastar - in his case I was a bit surprised how few albums he's had, just 3. But all of them have reached the top 5 in US & UK, he's got endless single hits and is a great performer. Similar to Rihanna & The Weeknd, he could definitely headline.

The National - now, this is interesting. I'd assumed the National would be an unlikely act to headline. But actually they've had more success than I realised with 4 top 5 albums in UK and US. They've performed at Glastonbury twice before, most recently subbing on the Other. Reckon they'd only be on if the other two headliners had a big "wow" factor, but definitely possible.

So, out of all that lot? I'd actually say either Bruno Mars or The Weeknd are most likely, followed by The National. Rihanna a shoe-in if she comes back to music. Dave an outside chance.

Phew.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hugh Jass]

9 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Depeche talk a good game when it comes to Glasto, but like yourself, I fear their time has come and gone. They should have really done it on their last tour cycle as their profile was higher than it has ever been before in this country, regarding live gigs.

They have some bits written and I would expect an album around this time next year. I live in hope, but if they don't play on the next cycle then I think that's it.

There is a fella on here who knows someone within their circle and has offered good Depeche news in the past (apologies for not remembering who), maybe if he sees our posts, he could offer more insight. I am just a Devotee really.

Wouldn't say their time has gone. If The Cure can headline in 2019 there's no reason why DM can't.

[Leyrulion]

6 hours ago, Matt42 said:

I think the festival doesn’t bump up acts like this because there is no ‘trajectory’. They will still be the same size this time next year. Whereas acts like Stormzy etc are going to continue to trend upwards.

I think this is a factor. How many acts who whilst big became massive after a pyramid slot. Or it moved them from big act to global superstar? 

It's really hard to judge because I think of someone like Coldplay as always being global superstars but did Glastonbury help them cement that status?

 

[maelzoid]

16 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

 

OK, let's have a look at this lot then. 🙂

I'm going to break these down using my original categories. 

 

First as "Legends" - some others are using "Heritage" acts which I guess may avoid confusion with the Sunday afternoon Legends slot. Let's stick with calling them heritage.

NC&TBS - Has the back catalogue to do it, but not really quite on the same level as other Heritage headliners. Also has subbed on the Pyramid 3 times, don't see a headline slot happening now.

PJ - Legendary band with success over 3 decades. Great headliner and would follow precedent of bands like Foo Fighters and Metallica. Could easily headline if they want to & if Emily wants them.

Depeche Mode - As above, more than qualified to fill a heritage headliner slot. 

Eminem - Yes he is a heritage act, been around since 1996 and had an undeniable impact on music. Not sure if he'd want to headline and not sure the festival would want him based on previous controversies. On balance I reckon probably not.

Out of these heritage acts Pearl Jam & Depeche Mode are by far the most likely IMO.

Note I'm not working out the albums etc. - I'm lumping acts into the "Legend/Heritage" category when you can take it for granted they have hugely popular albums, tours etc, over at least 20 years.

 

A bit of an anomaly - Rage Against the Machine. Although they've been around for a long time, that's included extended hiatus periods and they only actually have 4 studio albums - the most recent of which was released in 2000! So IMO they are better classified as a cult favourite band than a heritage act.

I don't think data helps us much with RATM. They don't seem an especially good fit with Glastonbury, no new material and more committed to Reading & Leeds perhaps? I dunno, it's an odd one. Thinking probably not, much as I'd love to see them on the farm.

 

Onto the popular acts!

Olivia Rodrigo is too new to headline anytime soon. Her debut album is incredible but no idea of her as a performer yet - crazy to speculate at this stage of her career. Let's see how the next few years go for her. 

Next, acts that have huge commercial success but don't "fit" the festival. These are Justin Bieber and BTS - in both cases you'd probably get a big crowd of under 25s at the Pyramid but everyone else would avoid - I don't think that's what the festival wants for Pyramid headliners. I'd question whether either act would want to perform to an indifferent festival crowd - they would probably prefer to sell out stadiums full of their own fans.

Now it gets interesting (sort of 😆). Acts where the data might actually be relevant. Here I have dug into the spreadsheet again, I clearly needed something to do on my lunch break.

Dave - would be bucking the trend according to the data, but OTOH would be following Stormzy's trajectory from Other sub to Pyramid headliner. Possible but IMO unlikely.

Rihanna - huge back catalogue, absolutely ridiculous commercial success, until I looked at her discography I had no idea just how successful she was. If she wanted to return to music & do the festival I reckon Emily would have her booked in a heartbeat. Big if there though! Again, possible but unlikely.

Imagine Dragons - probably a bit of a jump to headline the Pyramid, their previous performance was 4th down on the other. Data suggests unlikely to happen.

The Weeknd - another astonishingly successful performer, multiple no 1 albums and singles, critically acclaimed. Could definitely headline if he & the festival want to make it happen.

Post Malone - he's actually had more albums and chart success than I realised, with 2 top 5 albums in the UK and 3 in the US. This is a bit weak though compared to past performers whose Glastonbury debut has been as Pyramid headliner. I don't see it happening.

21 Pilots - as above really, they've never played the festival before and their popularity doesn't seem to warrant a debut Pyramid headline slot. As others have said, also more of a R&L act than Glastonbury.

Bruno Mars - another megastar - in his case I was a bit surprised how few albums he's had, just 3. But all of them have reached the top 5 in US & UK, he's got endless single hits and is a great performer. Similar to Rihanna & The Weeknd, he could definitely headline.

The National - now, this is interesting. I'd assumed the National would be an unlikely act to headline. But actually they've had more success than I realised with 4 top 5 albums in UK and US. They've performed at Glastonbury twice before, most recently subbing on the Other. Reckon they'd only be on if the other two headliners had a big "wow" factor, but definitely possible.

So, out of all that lot? I'd actually say either Bruno Mars or The Weeknd are most likely, followed by The National. Rihanna a shoe-in if she comes back to music. Dave an outside chance.

Phew.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Loving your work.

[Leyrulion]

34 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

Bruno Mars - another megastar - in his case I was a bit surprised how few albums he's had, just 3. But all of them have reached the top 5 in US & UK, he's got endless single hits and is a great performer. Similar to Rihanna & The Weeknd, he could definitely headline

Bruno Mars has loads of side projects though. He's collaborated with Mark Robson, Ceelo Green and now Anderson.paak. 

Not to mention the songs yes produced that he could probably pull out. I almost think he's too big for Glastonbury.