Football 2021/2022

[thetime]

24 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Correct then but I'm gonna twist like everyone else and say that every season has it's own variables. It's quite clear who the better manager is, ridiculous that people even try to argue against it.

I dont think anyone is arguing against it. Rafa is clearly a much better manager. What with managing some of the world's biggest sides without getting a league title since valencia 20 years ago. 

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

but things like asking Arteta is completely meaningless and just perpetuates people listening to Bruce's moaning.

The media ask managers meaningless questions every week. As I have said this week they were asking Klopp and OGS who the best player is out of Salah and Ronaldo.

The meaningless questions are then countered by meaningless answers. Most weeks Newcastle fans would accept that and just ignore like the rest of us. It just happens this week they are reading into things that really don't need reading into.

[WS_Jack_III]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The media ask managers meaningless questions every week. As I have said this week they were asking Klopp and OGS who the best player is out of Salah and Ronaldo.

The meaningless questions are then countered by meaningless answers. Most weeks Newcastle fans would accept that and just ignore like the rest of us. It just happens this week they are reading into things that really don't need reading into.

I can tell you that siege mentality is setting in right now for Newcastle fans.

[charlierc]

14 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Hull spent a lot of money for the time. Whether it was neutral or somewhat good is a bit irrelevant to now though, he's not had a positive impact at a club for 10 years.

There are plenty of moronic Newcastle fans, and like with most clubs they're generally the loudest. I get how the narrative can be fed into, it's just how football media operate, but things like asking Arteta is completely meaningless and just perpetuates people listening to Bruce's moaning. He moaned about the fans after 2 games, he kept having digs at the previous manager, had further digs at the fans, while never accepting responsibility himself or criticising the owner.

Was curious so thought I'd have a look. Had a bigger budget in season 2 and got relegated... doesn't back up my argument he did well at Hull that. Though certainly his legacy there must be better for fans to chant for him back than at, say, Villa and their cabbage throwing stuff, or indeed us. We'd have to pick a garbage manager to want Bruce back.

I guess really a lot of the Benitez-Bruce thing is emotional connection, and stuff like that from Bruce didn't help. Sarcastic references to the "Mighty Rafa" and at one point Eddie Howe in press conferences were a strange way to spend press conferences, plus multiple negative references to fans. Maybe it's a character thing - Allardyce is of a similar ilk and seemed to openly fall out with West Ham and Everton fans, as well as Newcastle's.

Certainly, if Arteta had been made Newcastle manager - he was the early bookies favourite after Rafa left - I as a Newcastle fan may have been justified in giving more of a shit about what he had to say about Newcastle United.

[jyoung]

Seven heaven! Norwich are dog shit aren't they? Hopefully United can get some points off Liverpool tomorrow and that's a perfect weekend for me. Also that Newcastle thing was rank.

[pink_triangle]

14 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Seven heaven! Norwich are dog shit aren't they? Hopefully United can get some points off Liverpool tomorrow and that's a perfect weekend for me. Also that Newcastle thing was rank.

It feels that Buendia was such an influential player for them that it was always going to be tough to replace that influence. Oh well they can swap with WBA or Fulham for 2022/2023 before swapping back the following year.

[mcshed]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I am very dubious how football fans use statistics.

Former Aberdeen manager Ebbe Skovdahl had it right on statistics in football:

"Statistics are like miniskirts, they give you good ideas but hide the important things."

[eastynh]

Ashley is gone, Bruce has gone. Why on earth are the Newcastle fans still moaning?

[pink_triangle]

Police are now investigating a Crystal Palace banner highlighting human right abuses in Saudi Arabia. My view is the right to protest should be protected, this is a complete waste of police time.

[squirrelarmy]

19 hours ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Thoughts on Leeds? Second season syndrome?

Having a bit of an injury crisis. Missing a lot of crucial players at the moment including both our England internationals, German international defender and our star Brazilian has only just returned from his international debut. It’s a challenge playing premier league football when you only have 1 premier league level defender fit to play.

Yesterdays point should have really been 3 but there’s signs that last season’s magic is on it’s way back. 

[charlierc]

12 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

It feels that Buendia was such an influential player for them that it was always going to be tough to replace that influence. Oh well they can swap with WBA or Fulham for 2022/2023 before swapping back the following year.

Part of me feels a little bad for Tim Krul - good keeper at Newcastle whose career was damaged by a massive injury in 2015 and some misjudged loan moves in 2016/17, did well to get back to first choice for a team that can challenge for promotion from the Championship, but then has to sit behind a Norwich defence that falls apart whenever a PL quality striker so much looks at it.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, eastynh said:

Ashley is gone, Bruce has gone. Why on earth are the Newcastle fans still moaning?

Since when has anything stopped football fans moaning?

[charlierc]

3 hours ago, eastynh said:

Ashley is gone, Bruce has gone. Why on earth are the Newcastle fans still moaning?

I'm not sure how happy we can truly be when being 19th in the Premier League table and without a win since May. But I'm aware that you'd think being shot of two primary sources of dissatisfaction would ease some of the problems. But as said above, football fans like complaining.

I think part of it is residual, given there was a lot of pent up irritation with the takeover being delayed, part of it is getting annoyed by TalkSport pundits who have provided bad takes on Newcastle in the past, and part of it is some people feeling at odds with those outside the fanbase who aren't impressed by who our new majority owners are. Tbf I did think it would be a harder sell outside the fanbase - not because it's us, but because any club being subject to this kind of deal was going to be subject to a fuck ton of scrutiny.

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Police are now investigating a Crystal Palace banner highlighting human right abuses in Saudi Arabia. My view is the right to protest should be protected, this is a complete waste of police time.

Saw the banner and I think it was about more than just that. Perhaps not surprisingly it went down more negatively among Newcastle fans than others. I'm surprised it's needed such a referral tbh.

Edited October 24, 2021 by charlierc

[pink_triangle]

21 minutes ago, charlierc said:

 

Saw the banner and I think it was about more than just that. Perhaps not surprisingly it went down more negatively among Newcastle fans than others. I'm surprised it's needed such a referral tbh.

What do you think it was about? I thought it was pretty clear the point they were making. Why would it be perceived more negatively by Newcastle fans? I got the impression most accept that human rights abuses take place in Saudi Arabia. Surely Newcastle fans support the right to protest.

I also agree it's stupid that it needed a referral. Who is the person who complains about a sign protesting human rights abuse.

[lost]

15 hours ago, charlierc said:

I saw it as 2-1 to Everton with about 15 to go and was thinking "They'll probably see it out". Boy was I wrong. I mean it was unexpected enough that Chelsea put 7 past Norwich (maybe not that unexpected of the two) but this defensive collapse is nuts. The defending for the 4th goal was particularly hopeless.

There was a good article about Ben Godfey and Covid in the athletic this week. No doubt about it though he looks a shell of the player he was last year, i'm now wondering if Everton was one of the clubs where the conspiracy theories took hold which make sense with Delphs comments, a few players have got it and that explains the complete collapse in stamina on 77 minutes. Agree with the defending though I wouldn't expect King to get that much space against a non-league team.

[lost]

47 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I also agree it's stupid that it needed a referral. Who is the person who complains about a sign protesting human rights abuse.

The police are investing it for racism. Some people see criticising anything that you don't like about a different culture as racist. See also Boris's Burqa comments.

[kaosmark2]

23 minutes ago, lost said:

The police are investing it for racism. Some people see criticising anything that you don't like about a different culture as racist. See also Boris's Burqa comments.

Bojo has form for all sorts of racism though, and he's also now the PM. He needs to be held more accountable than the average person.

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

Bojo has form for all sorts of racism though, and he's also now the PM. He needs to be held more accountable than the average person.

Agreed, knowing his love for the Saudis it may have been him who complained. However the point stands if Newcastle fans are upset about this banner, the sportswashing has worked.

 

[lost]

30 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Bojo has form for all sorts of racism though, and he's also now the PM. He needs to be held more accountable than the average person.

Hmm don't really get that argument. Are we saying Boris can never criticise Israel foreign policy because he has "form" and so its going to encourage antisemitism?

Of course we know there are people who go too far and cross that line but I don't think it should mean Israel foreign policy is off limits especially for a British PM who should be supporting the idea of western liberal democracies. I'd much rather people learn to differentiate between race and culture.

The idea of attacking a muslim women because you don't like the forced covering of women and attacking a British Jewish person because you don't like Israel foreign policy are both equally stupid but I don't want to live in a society where we can't call out stuff we don't agree with to somehow protect us from the idiots.

Edited October 24, 2021 by lost

[WS_Jack_III]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Police are now investigating a Crystal Palace banner highlighting human right abuses in Saudi Arabia. My view is the right to protest should be protected, this is a complete waste of police time.

I don't really understand why it's being investigated, maybe it was a little too full on with it's imagery? 

2 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Having a bit of an injury crisis. Missing a lot of crucial players at the moment including both our England internationals, German international defender and our star Brazilian has only just returned from his international debut. It’s a challenge playing premier league football when you only have 1 premier league level defender fit to play.

Yesterdays point should have really been 3 but there’s signs that last season’s magic is on it’s way back. 

Spoke to a mate who is a Leeds fan and he said exactly the same.

[kaosmark2]

24 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Agreed, knowing his love for the Saudis it may have been him who complained. However the point stands if Newcastle fans are upset about this banner, the sportswashing has worked.

Well, it means it'd worked in the context of those fans.

[kaosmark2]

7 minutes ago, lost said:

Hmm don't really get that argument. Are we saying Boris can never criticise Israel foreign policy because he has "form" and so its going to encourage antisemitism?

Of course we know there are people who go too far and cross that line but I don't think it should mean Israel foreign policy is off limits especially for a British PM who should be supporting the idea of western liberal democracies. I'd much rather people learn to differentiate between race and culture.

Who do you trust more to make a nuanced argument, someone with no track record, or someone who's referred to "picanninnies with watermelon smiles"?

I trust the average football fan more to understand the difference between race and culture and to react appropriately than I do Bojo. He has repeatedly shown a lack of respect or consideration for tolerance, and has worked closely with white supremacists. 

I never said anything like foreign policy should be off limits btw, but it does make it more difficult.

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

I don't really understand why it's being investigated, maybe it was a little too full on with it's imagery? 

 

If a complaint is made, it has to be investigated to determine whether there are any offences being committed and/or take advice from CPS.  

As far as I can see, there aren't and I'm quite sure that will will soon be made clear. However, it still has to be done formally. There might be local byelaws or club policies that it violates and if so, will be referred to those responsible. 

it's being looked at, not prosecuted.

As an aside, as a local and one who was at SJP last week, the atmosphere around the toon is great. The general opinion on the furore around the Saudi involvement is that very few of the other PL clubs have any moral high ground in this, it's simply the way things are......owners with questionable track records are rife in the PL (even at Palace see Blitzer and Blackstone) and the only reason NUFC are being targetted is that several other clubs are now cacking themselves about the arrival of more competition. Water off a ducks back.

[lost]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

I trust the average football fan more to understand the difference between race and culture and to react appropriately than I do Bojo.

You might but the point here is someone else doesn't which is why the racism complaint has been made. Someone thinks a Saudi man in London may suffer a racist attack if we point out chopping up a journalist into little pieces with a bone saw is wrong.

Its just part of their culture we don't understand.

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, lost said:

You might but the point here is someone else doesn't which is why the racism complaint has been made. Someone thinks a Saudi man in London may suffer a racist attack if we point out chopping up a journalist into little pieces with a bone saw is wrong.

Its just part of their culture we don't understand.

Yes, but you brought up his Burja comments as an equivalent example, when I think this complaint is much more ridiculous than any about Bojo.