Róisín Murphy

[acidstorm523]

We surely don’t want to live in a world where personal freedom and opinion is wiped out. Some kind of horrific 1984 scenario. By buying into cancel culture, you become the architect of your own demise, where words are watched and conversation driven underground. Watching of words and censorship can only become easier online, and censorship is something to fight against. What happens when the day comes that YOUR opinion is no longer acceptable? Really this is not a world I want to see as the future. All this anger and division. Live and let live. If you don’t like something as frankly irrelevant and RM’s opinion of pharmaceutical companies, surely just move on. Be happy! Stop wasting time in negativity. 
I find it horrifying that in fact, there is a generation coming up who are creating an ultra conservative society with cancel culture. Perhaps they are not seeing the consequences for themselves in the future. Freedom is everything. Don’t encourage a world where people are silenced. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by acidstorm523

[zahidf]

4 hours ago, acidstorm523 said:

We surely don’t want to live in a world where personal freedom and opinion is wiped out. Some kind of horrific 1984 scenario. By buying into cancel culture, you become the architect of your own demise, where words are watched and conversation driven underground. Watching of words and censorship can only become easier online, and censorship is something to fight against. What happens when the day comes that YOUR opinion is no longer acceptable? Really this is not a world I want to see as the future. All this anger and division. Live and let live. If you don’t like something as frankly irrelevant and RM’s opinion of pharmaceutical companies, surely just move on. Be happy! Stop wasting time in negativity. 
I find it horrifying that in fact, there is a generation coming up who are creating an ultra conservative society with cancel culture. Perhaps they are not seeing the consequences for themselves in the future. Freedom is everything. Don’t encourage a world where people are silenced. 

Oh for goodness sakes. People don't tolerate intolerance against minorities anymore. It's not just 'questioning big phrama' , it's a right wing conspiracy to punch down at trans people. She was given the opportunity to walk back, but she double down and denounced making music for the LGBTQ community. 

Maybe racists, homophobes and transphobes should be called out? 

[Jay Pee]

Stayed out of this but have to say acidstorm523 you really struck a chord with me. It does worry me that kids / young people may make life changing decisions without the wisdom that comes with a few more years of life.

I did not know what the hell I wanted to do with my life at 16 and certainly could not make a decision like that and feel comfortable and informed.  

Don't think I started to properly mature and make the right decisions in life until i was 30.

You put some important points around life defining decisions across very well.

[acidstorm523]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Oh for goodness sakes. People don't tolerate intolerance against minorities anymore. It's not just 'questioning big phrama' , it's a right wing conspiracy to punch down at trans people. She was given the opportunity to walk back, but she double down and denounced making music for the LGBTQ community. 

Maybe racists, homophobes and transphobes should be called out? 

Or maybe you are over reacting in thinking a pop star is part of a right wing conspiracy against you. You have chosen to twist her words and see the worst. It must be a miserable place to be always looking to take people down. 

[acidstorm523]

2 minutes ago, Jay Pee said:

Stayed out of this but have to say acidstorm523 you really struck a chord with me. It does worry me that kids / young people may make life changing decisions without the wisdom that comes with a few more years of life.

I did not know what the hell I wanted to do with my life at 16 and certainly could not make a decision like that and feel comfortable and informed.  

Don't think I started to properly mature and make the right decisions in life until i was 30.

You put some important points around life defining decisions across very well.

Thank you. I don’t usually get involved with these politics, but actually I think it’s now very unfocused and unreasonable. We have to be able to talk about these things. I have kids myself, and you can see how much they change in just a few years. 

[Skip997]

5 hours ago, acidstorm523 said:

I find it horrifying that in fact, there is a generation coming up who are creating an ultra conservative society with cancel culture. Perhaps they are not seeing the consequences for themselves in the future. Freedom is everything. Don’t encourage a world where people are silenced. 

Absoluetly spot on again @acidstorm523.

It's really concerning. It's getting increasingly difficult to even have a conversation with some people. Say the "wrong thing", use the "wrong words" unintentionally because you actually don't know or are uninformed and suddenly you're transphobic/homophobic/anti-semetic etc.

Genuine debate is being shut down and it's a dangerous thing.

I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it.

[acidstorm523]

Just now, Skip997 said:

Absoluetly spot on again @acidstorm523.

It's really concerning. It's getting increasingly difficult to even have a conversation with some people. Say the "wrong thing", use the "wrong words" unintentionally because you actually don't know or are uninformed and suddenly you're transphobic/homophobic/anti-semetic etc.

Genuine debate is being shut down and it's a dangerous thing.

I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it.

Exactly. And it plays directly into the hands of the right wing. Why can they not see that this censorship… “cancelling” is just a trendy word for oppression. And we know that oppression of ideas does not make them go away. Things fester in the dark, so give them the light of open debate. 
there is definitely the generation thing too.. words may change, there are words that are unacceptable now that were routine and without malice a few years ago. It doesn’t mean that a person has bad intention, which is the important part. I’m sick of the throwing hands in the air hysteria. Everyone jumping down throats. Is really really tiresome and very immature. All the more reason to have proper debate about life changing decisions. 

[MEGABOWL]

5 hours ago, acidstorm523 said:

We surely don’t want to live in a world where personal freedom and opinion is wiped out. Some kind of horrific 1984 scenario. By buying into cancel culture, you become the architect of your own demise, where words are watched and conversation driven underground. Watching of words and censorship can only become easier online, and censorship is something to fight against. What happens when the day comes that YOUR opinion is no longer acceptable? Really this is not a world I want to see as the future. All this anger and division. Live and let live. If you don’t like something as frankly irrelevant and RM’s opinion of pharmaceutical companies, surely just move on. Be happy! Stop wasting time in negativity. 
I find it horrifying that in fact, there is a generation coming up who are creating an ultra conservative society with cancel culture. Perhaps they are not seeing the consequences for themselves in the future. Freedom is everything. Don’t encourage a world where people are silenced. 

Another excellent post

[acidstorm523]

1 minute ago, MEGABOWL said:

Another excellent post

Thank you.. I’m all out of reactions ! 

[clarkete]

16 minutes ago, acidstorm523 said:

Exactly. And it plays directly into the hands of the right wing. Why can they not see that this censorship… “cancelling” is just a trendy word for oppression. And we know that oppression of ideas does not make them go away. Things fester in the dark, so give them the light of open debate. 
there is definitely the generation thing too.. words may change, there are words that are unacceptable now that were routine and without malice a few years ago. It doesn’t mean that a person has bad intention, which is the important part. I’m sick of the throwing hands in the air hysteria. Everyone jumping down throats. Is really really tiresome and very immature. All the more reason to have proper debate about life changing decisions. 

If you think that cancel culture is the dominant force I wonder what the heck you've been looking at for the last few years.  

In both policy (enshrining the obligation for universities to provide platforms for speakers) and strategy for the next election, it's well known that this government and the one that proceeded it want to stir up culture wars and their press will support them. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-culture-wars-tory-annihilation-b2380104.html

 

https://theweek.com/news/politics/962151/rishi-sunak-will-waging-culture-war-win-him-election

[collectivisedfarming]

It's come to something when you can't even say the things that people have been saying openly and repeatedly on this public forum, and you can't have the debate that has been going on for the majority of this nine page thread.

It's like living under the bloody Stasi. 

[acidstorm523]

3 minutes ago, clarkete said:

If you think that cancel culture is the dominant force I wonder what the heck you've been looking at for the last few years.  

In both policy (enshrining the obligation for universities to provide platforms for speakers) and strategy for the next election, it's well known that this government and the one that proceeded it want to stir up culture wars and their press will support them. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-culture-wars-tory-annihilation-b2380104.html

 

https://theweek.com/news/politics/962151/rishi-sunak-will-waging-culture-war-win-him-election

I am saying that actually. This is playing into the hands of the right wing, and actually doing their dirty work for them. Divide and conquer. 

[clarkete]

2 minutes ago, acidstorm523 said:

I am saying that actually. This is playing into the hands of the right wing, and actually doing their dirty work for them. Divide and conquer. 

You're choosing to be divided by their agenda 

[clarkete]

5 minutes ago, collectivisedfarming said:

It's come to something when you can't even say the things that people have been saying openly and repeatedly on this public forum, and you can't have the debate that has been going on for the majority of this nine page thread.

It's like living under the bloody Stasi. 

Aye, went to see Frankie Boyle recently "whenever I hear comedians complain about cancel culture I think "how come I can still bloody hear you then""

[acidstorm523]

Just now, clarkete said:

You're choosing to be divided by their agenda 

I’m not at all. I am asking for calm and open debate? I am suggesting things need to calm down. I suggest that cancelling people is doing exactly that - blindly dividing people and pitting them against eachother without listening. I am not divided from anyone. 

[MEGABOWL]

18 minutes ago, collectivisedfarming said:

It's come to something when you can't even say the things that people have been saying openly and repeatedly on this public forum, and you can't have the debate that has been going on for the majority of this nine page thread.

It's like living under the bloody Stasi. 

If everybody behaved how most people have on this thread things would be fine

[stuie]

1 hour ago, Jay Pee said:

Stayed out of this but have to say acidstorm523 you really struck a chord with me. It does worry me that kids / young people may make life changing decisions without the wisdom that comes with a few more years of life.

I did not know what the hell I wanted to do with my life at 16 and certainly could not make a decision like that and feel comfortable and informed.  

Don't think I started to properly mature and make the right decisions in life until i was 30.

You put some important points around life defining decisions across very well.

This isn’t about making bad decisions. Some of these people have known they are in the wrong body from the time that they were old enough to know what boys and girls are. 

These drugs are given out easily. They work with a team of medical professionals for years. The alternative is very often serious, self harm or suicide.

[Jay Pee]

10 minutes ago, stuie said:

This isn’t about making bad decisions. Some of these people have known they are in the wrong body from the time that they were old enough to know what boys and girls are. 

These drugs are given out easily. They work with a team of medical professionals for years. The alternative is very often serious, self harm or suicide.

I don't doubt this is the case Stuie in some situations but not all which is where my concern comes from.

My partner works with many.

I don't have anything else to say really. And don't want to get dragged into the sh*t slinging in here 

[acidstorm523]

24 minutes ago, stuie said:

This isn’t about making bad decisions. Some of these people have known they are in the wrong body from the time that they were old enough to know what boys and girls are. 

These drugs are given out easily. They work with a team of medical professionals for years. The alternative is very often serious, self harm or suicide.

Preparing to be totally shot down in reactionary flames. 
 

I am a counsellor and have some experience. It is incredibly complicated. 
some people may feel that from very young for many different reasons. 
sometimes it is indeed genetic.
Sometimes a phase. Sometimes that idea may fulfil a psychological need. 
sometimes a troubled child might get a lot of positive attention and it becomes a feedback loop where they can see the idea gets them the attention they need. then the idea of transitioning might become the solution when perhaps it’s not 

this is not from a place of wanting to deny or hurt or disrespect, it is from a place of wanting to protect. 
perhaps there are things that can help before medicalisation of the problem. Perhaps it is good to learn to love yourself before potentially harming your body and causing a lifetime of problems and pain. I know that there are hoops to jump through, but we also know they are not as thorough as they should be at times because of the state of the NHS
express yourself any way you want, call yourself anything you like , rebel and whatever first  

I know two people now in their 60s who couldn’t afford surgery in the 80s and are glad now that they didn’t, because they now realise it wasn’t necessary -  learning self acceptance and presenting themselves as they wanted was  one now has kids which may not have been otherwise  

My best friend had a double mastectomy due to cancer and has ongoing physical problems from that  

I just can’t see that winning the right to potentially harm your body at a very young age is the greatest goal  

is that really a terrible thing to suggest? 
 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by acidstorm523

[stuie]

I haven’t shot anyone down! I’ve just expressed my opinion, which is based on a woman I know, that didn’t get any help transitioning until later life. I don’t think there’s a blanket right answer here but I do think that in some cases, the use of blockers is justified. 

[acidstorm523]

Just now, stuie said:

I haven’t shot anyone down! I’ve just expressed my opinion, which is based on a woman I know, that didn’t get any help transitioning until later life. I don’t think there’s a blanket right answer here but I do think that in some cases, the use of blockers is justified. 

Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you in particular in the shot down bit. 
 

and yes, I agree that there are cases where they are justified , just urging precaution.  

[angelin]

And I think we are mainly talking about children/teenagers. No one’s talking about those that transition and continue to self harm/hate themselves because it just wasn’t the answer.  
 

I went to see Ricky Gervais the other night he is so right everyone should be allowed to speak out as long as we aren’t vile to each other.
 

 

[clarkete]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:54 PM, stuie said:

I haven’t shot anyone down! I’ve just expressed my opinion, which is based on a woman I know, that didn’t get any help transitioning until later life. I don’t think there’s a blanket right answer here but I do think that in some cases, the use of blockers is justified. 

Yes - I too know someone who had struggled with it for many years, so in their case it definitely wasn't a phase and nobody (but particularly them) are under any illusions that it's an easy choice they take - it's been a difficult road, but as you mentioned earlier without that option they likely wouldn't be here today.

 

 

41 minutes ago, angelin said:

I went to see Ricky Gervais the other night he is so right everyone should be allowed to speak out as long as we aren’t vile to each other.
 

He's a massively popular person, but he's one of the people whose views I find quite offensive - to the extent that one issue has stopped me wanting to consume any of his other productions.

Edited September 20, 2023 by clarkete

[Neil]

On 9/15/2023 at 11:35 AM, gigpusher said:

That's my issue I think extreme reactions create extremists

i think your line already explains it~: extremism makes an extremist.

[zahidf]

14 hours ago, clarkete said:

Yes - I too know someone who had struggled with it for many years, so in their case it definitely wasn't a phase and nobody (but particularly them) are under any illusions that it's an easy choice they take - it's been a difficult road, but as you mentioned earlier without that option they likely wouldn't be here today.

 

 

He's a massively popular person, but he's one of the people whose views I find quite offensive - to the extent that one issue has stopped me wanting to consume any of his other productions.

The 'I'm being ironic' thing doesn't seem to translate to the audience, who seem to take his jokes at face value

Much like dave chapelle, making money from transphobia. Maybe roisin can support them on an LGB alliance funding gig or something.