Hip Hop at Glastonbury 2022?

[Florian Saucer Attack]

6 minutes ago, David_303 said:

He was probably copying what was going on in Kingston etc. since the 50s. 

I do think that dance culture should be acknowledged more in the UK - a bit like what they're doing in Germany. 

It's not disputed that he came up with the break beat at these parties. They say the art of rapping also came from these parties and maybe you could dispute that. But there is no doubt he was influenced by the Jamaican music scene. It just depends on how far back you wanna go when discussing the origins of music. Ultimately all music today is derived from folk, classic or religious music and if you go really far back all music from everywhere in the world could be said to derive from folk music 

Regarding your second point I agree and I don't think what I am saying impedes this or demeans the sub-genres we are talking about

[clarkete]

22 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

(give it time)

Got a cracking reception up at the Park

[Junglist1981]

2 hours ago, David_303 said:

I came here to post this. Nicely put mate (I've been involved with the scene for many, many years - so pretty defensive of it!) 

Thanks man! It’s very important to spread the knowledge far and wide, I think it’s overlooked by far too many. The explosion of new genres out of London over the last 30 years is just remarkable really, one of the many positive things about British culture that I’m super proud of. If it were up to me this stuff would be taught and celebrated in primary schools up and down the land lol

Who knows, maybe one day it will be 🙂

[John the Moth]

11 hours ago, Junglist1981 said:

Hi I just had to say, Jungle, UKG and Grime artists wouldn't consider themselves to be Hip Hop at all.

Jungle rose from a fusion of techno/breakbeat/hardcore (rave music if you will) and Jamaican sound system culture (baselines, rewinds, MCs hosting). Techno and reggae/dancehall are the key influences. The only real influence taken from hip hop was a few sampling techniques. Jungle then morphed into D&B.

UK garage is US garage (a house sub-genre) fused with D&B, pulling through the sound system culture, 2 step beats, baselines, rewinds, MCs etc

Grime might seem to have hip hop influence in its approach and presentation as the MC is much more central, but the music itself arose from UKG after that took a darker more underground turn to counter the rampant commercialisation of the genre. Wiley is the pioneer, he was originally a Jungle and UKG MC/producer.

All of this along with other genres (notably dubstep) rose organically from the melting pot multicultural streets of London, hence there's a lot of crossover between them all. I sincerely believe that as a nation we should be very proud of all of them. They are highly original, uniquely British cultural movements and whilst they are better recognised than they used to be they still don't get enough credit (I won't get into why I think that is, but you could probably guess) 🙂

Great knowledge, thanks for sharing. I don’t delve deep enough to focus on sub genres so I’ve actually learned something.

Now can someone do this for metal?

[Florian Saucer Attack]

30 minutes ago, John the Moth said:

Great knowledge, thanks for sharing. I don’t delve deep enough to focus on sub genres so I’ve actually learned something.

Now can someone do this for metal?

The metal music tree is easier to follow. New sub genres usually emerged by becoming more extreme in some way than older genres and when metal mixes with other genres it's usually easy to tell what the mix is (punk, folk, classical, goth)

Black sabbath are the first full blown metal band, anything before is proto metal 

[SouthbanKen]

On 4/23/2022 at 8:53 AM, Tommy Dickfingers said:

It pains me to say this as Hip Hop has been the genre I’ve been into most since I was a kid but I’m often disappointed when I see it live. Public Enemy were horrendous 3 times in a row. 
 

Best I’ve seen are Jay Z and Nas and I’d heard a lot of bad things about Nas.

I agree. Romesh Ranganathan is bang into his Hip Hop and did a decent podcast called "Hip Hop Saved my life" he and his guests would often lament that that Hip Hop really struggled to translate to a decent live show. 

Having said that i saw Run DMC at Isle of Wight in 2016 and they were pretty dope. 

 

[blutarsky]

12 hours ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

The metal music tree is easier to follow. New sub genres usually emerged by becoming more extreme in some way than older genres and when metal mixes with other genres it's usually easy to tell what the mix is (punk, folk, classical, goth)

Black sabbath are the first full blown metal band, anything before is proto metal 

No pop punk on there 🤨

[1986]

Live hip hop can be amazing but the guy on his own with a dj set up gets tired pretty quickly. Full band performances are as good as anything I've seen in other genres, Oddisee and Good Company, Nas, Little Simz, and even Public Enemy off the top of my head are some Glastonbury performances I've loved. 

Dunno what Kendricks live set up is these days but hopefully he'll have more than that recent Reading one. Even he looks bored. 

[Florian Saucer Attack]

23 minutes ago, blutarsky said:

No pop punk on there 🤨

Edited April 25, 2022 by Florian Saucer Attack

[gigpusher]

All this genre talk is very interesting. I tend to split things into just 2 genres stuff I like and stuff I don't. I'll admit to being wholly ignorant of all of this. 

[Junglist1981]

22 hours ago, TASHMA BWABWE said:

Hip house was also an early influence on jungle, wasn't it?

Gotta be honest, I didn't really know what hip house was until I just looked it up! You've sent me off down a rabbit hole that culminated in me finding this awesome recent interview with Fab and Groove explaining how they invented jungle at Rage

And sure enough, first thing Grooverider does is name check Hip House and then play a Hip Hop tune on 45! I've learned something today, thank you. Well worth watching that video through, really interesting particularly the insight into the the club scene in the late 80s/early 90s. 

So Hip Hop was definitely a much bigger part of the genesis of Jungle than I gave it credit for, certainly in terms of the breakbeats. Point stands however that Jungle is not under the umbrella of Hip Hop, it's one influence of many. Anyway I reckon that's plenty enough of me chatting Jungle in the Hip Hop thread 😁 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Junglist1981

[jfaragher]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:48 AM, Florian Saucer Attack said:

I agree with everything you say here but ultimately all these genres use techniques that originated from Kool Herc a Jamaican American in the Bronx in the early 70's.

I'd go with Hip-Hop and the UK Scenes (Jungle onwards) having a common ancestors in i.e. Jamaican toasting / 'deejay' (U-Roy and Dennis Alcapone we about before the NY scene kicked off); having engineers producing riddim or live mixing for people to then put lyrics over is very similar to breakbeats (and I might also, after a few drinks, argue that whilst Herc and co developed the use of turntables to mix breaks / sample, this wasn't a completely novel idea - redubbing or re-recording other peoples tunes has been happening since the invention of recorded music, along with artists borrowing melodies, drumlines, etc from other people's tunes)

For my money, we'd have had jungle and garage without hiphop and vice versa, but neither without the west indian traditions of toasting, or calypso extemporisation and storytelling.

[Florian Saucer Attack]

26 minutes ago, Junglist1981 said:

Gotta be honest, I didn't really know what hip house was until I just looked it up! You've sent me off down a rabbit hole that culminated in me finding this awesome recent interview with Fab and Groove explaining how they invented jungle at Rage

And sure enough, first thing Grooverider does is name check Hip House and then play a Hip Hop tune on 45! I've learned something today, thank you. Well worth watching that video through, really interesting particularly the insight into the the club scene in the late 80s/early 90s. 

So Hip Hop was definitely a much bigger part of the genesis of Jungle than I gave it credit for, certainly in terms of the breakbeats. Point stands however that Jungle is not under the umbrella of Hip Hop, it's one influence of many. Anyway I reckon that's plenty enough of me chatting Jungle in the Hip Hop thread 😁 

Sub genres can fall under multiple umbrella terms. If there was a big music tree like that metal one, jungle would have lines coming from hip hop and house. I think it's fair to say jungle is the least connected to hip hop of the sub genres we have been discussing

[Florian Saucer Attack]

18 minutes ago, jfaragher said:

I'd go with Hip-Hop and the UK Scenes (Jungle onwards) having a common ancestors in i.e. Jamaican toasting / 'deejay' (U-Roy and Dennis Alcapone we about before the NY scene kicked off); having engineers producing riddim or live mixing for people to then put lyrics over is very similar to breakbeats (and I might also, after a few drinks, argue that whilst Herc and co developed the use of turntables to mix breaks / sample, this wasn't a completely novel idea - redubbing or re-recording other peoples tunes has been happening since the invention of recorded music, along with artists borrowing melodies, drumlines, etc from other people's tunes)

For my money, we'd have had jungle and garage without hiphop and vice versa, but neither without the west indian traditions of toasting, or calypso extemporisation and storytelling.

I think I agree but only because if the early hip hop folk didn't develop these techniques someone else would have.

If the Kinks didn't slash their amps to get a more distorted guitar sound which started the move towards heavier guitar music someone else would have (some argue Johnny Guitar Watson did it first but the kinks came up with the idea independently and popularised it).

[NickM45]

3 hours ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

Sub genres can fall under multiple umbrella terms. If there was a big music tree like that metal one, jungle would have lines coming from hip hop and house. I think it's fair to say jungle is the least connected to hip hop of the sub genres we have been discussing

For me, from about 93 onwards it was all about listening to Hip Hop and Jungle with my mates. It was the sound we were into - mostly all underground music was on our radar, but those two in particular, Hip Hop and Jungle.

House, Techno, Hardcore etc was on our radar, but Hip Hop and Jungle was all we would DJ and listen to when meeting up on the weekend at our mates house. We also got into the downtempo Massive Attack/  Wild Bunch / Mo Wax records. I guess that style fitted in well with the post clubbing scene that started to develop. 

[stanh]

knucks, sainte and bawo would be great additions to the line-up i think, all on the verge of blowing up - knucks especially growing loads in popularity this year, supported slowthai on tour too i believe 

[Yg23]

Baby Keem seems to have been quietly added to the Roskilde lineup - hopefully this means he's also at the Glasto for a solo set + a Kendrick guest spot a few days before that.

Not related, but have you guys had the chance to listen to the new Black Star album? it's really, really good, I would've loved to have them at the festival too.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Yg23

[Haan]

1 hour ago, Yg23 said:

Not related, but have you guys had the chance to listen to the new Black Star album? it's really, really good, I would've loved to have them at the festival too.

Mos Def/Yasiin Bey just postponed his London gig for the second time, he would be worse than a Lauryn Hill booking

[TownesMR]

Anyone here have any predictions for who could be added on a smaller stage like WOW? Would love to see Digga D there late night.

[Jamm]

Weird question but is there anyway good on a night post-main stages that plays Hip Hop music? Never found one in my three times there but always on the look out…

 

(also I see Summer of Soul is on with an introduction by Questlove…. Is that a real introduction or pre-recorded, if the former what are the chances of him doing a DJ set somewhere?)

[joeruss]

Its a shame Action Bronson hasnt been booked.. saw him a few weeks back in Manchester and he was superb

[t0paz]

7 hours ago, Jamm said:

Weird question but is there anyway good on a night post-main stages that plays Hip Hop music? Never found one in my three times there but always on the look out…

 

(also I see Summer of Soul is on with an introduction by Questlove…. Is that a real introduction or pre-recorded, if the former what are the chances of him doing a DJ set somewhere?)

There is some UK hip hop in the Unfairground. Have a listen to the acts on in the Salon Carousel on Spotify and see if it’s your kind of thing.