Rail Strikes announced

[Tranquility of Solitude]

 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

One colleague put in hospital last night after an assault, and another in hospital with breathing difficulties because we still have to work with diesel trains thanks to the government refusing to pay for the train lines in a lot of rural areas to be electrified 

Tell me again we aren’t paid enough 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

1 hour ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

One colleague put in hospital last night after an assault, and another in hospital with breathing difficulties because we still have to work with diesel trains thanks to the government refusing to pay for the train lines in a lot of rural areas to be electrified 

Tell me again we aren’t paid enough 

That should be ‘we are paid too much’, obviously 

A good example of what we’re up against is this hysterical load of nonsense in the country’s most read newspaper last night https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10905687/Train-services-cancelled-staff-wont-work-sunny-GUY-ADAMS-investigates.html

If you’re choosing to believe - and side with - billionaires publishing crap like this, over working class people trying to protect their livelihoods.. ask yourself why. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Rose-Colored Boy

[chazwwe]

17 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

You can see it in the thread.  The ones not impacted are all power to the people and the ones directly impacted are like - WTF

Always the same with any strike.

I'm ridiculously impacted, as is half my group.

Power to the people. 

[clarkete]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

So if you was paid more the assaults and medical issues would suddenly be okay ?  Because you seem to be linking the two...  Strange logic

Not angry, merely lacking empathy and compassion. 

[zahidf]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61747449

Mentions Glastonbury goers being effected 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

41 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

So if you was paid more the assaults and medical issues would suddenly be okay ?  Because you seem to be linking the two...  Strange logic

No, obviously not, I’m just saying that this idea that we’re overpaid layabouts who have an easy time of it - as perfectly encapsulated by that bullshit Mail article which is completely detached from reality - needs knocking on the head. We deserve an annual payrise in line with CPI inflation just like everybody else does. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Rose-Colored Boy

[zahidf]

51 minutes ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

That should be ‘we are paid too much’, obviously 

A good example of what we’re up against is this hysterical load of nonsense in the country’s most read newspaper last night https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10905687/Train-services-cancelled-staff-wont-work-sunny-GUY-ADAMS-investigates.html

If you’re choosing to believe - and side with - billionaires publishing crap like this, over working class people trying to protect their livelihoods.. ask yourself why. 

It's a little patronising to say that people are anti strike because of the daily mail and other newspapers.

The only one posting links to the daily mail seems to be you:  people are allowed to complain about the strikes.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Would love one for my teacher wife who does a lot more hours than you for a lot less pay but its not happening. 

If the NASWUT wanted to strike for better pay, they’d be fully entitled to do so and I would support them.

PS you have no idea what hours I work or what my paycheque looks like. Thanks. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

It's a little patronising to say that people are anti strike because of the daily mail and other newspapers.

The only one posting links to the daily mail seems to be you:  people are allowed to complain about the strikes.

Well done on spectacularly missing the point - again. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

16 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

 

I find it interesting you offer default support without knowing the issues or how justified they are.

? Not really. Everyone in a public facing role deserves to be paid more in line with their efforts. Very simple. We’ve had 40 years of non-existent wage growth relative to inflation in this country and it’s time we stood up for ourselves. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Rose-Colored Boy

[Mardy]

24 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Would love one for my teacher wife who does a lot more hours than you for a lot less pay but its not happening. 

just a thought, maybe she could, you know, use collective bargaining/ the power of the collective as a way to improve her salary?

[hurdy]

7 minutes ago, Mardy said:

just a thought, maybe she could, you know, use collective bargaining/ the power of the collective as a way to improve her salary?

Can't have working people doing that. Might cause inconvenience to other people. 

[dmedxb]

10 minutes ago, Mardy said:

just a thought, maybe she could, you know, use collective bargaining/ the power of the collective as a way to improve her salary?

My god, you might be on to something here! 

[DeanoL]

Were railway workers all in full time over thr pandemic? I hadn't realised that and yeah that's absolutely ridiculous. Can't understand why the unions didn't step in at that point.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

28 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Were railway workers all in full time over thr pandemic? I hadn't realised that and yeah that's absolutely ridiculous. Can't understand why the unions didn't step in at that point.

Imagine what the reaction to industrial action during the pandemic would’ve been, considering this week’s hysterical overreaction from the right wing press about strikes after Covid has mostly died down ! 

[Mardy]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

If teachers went on strike the people it would hurt most is working class people and working class kids.  Join the dots.

 

Yeah, of course a well funded, well-resourced, motivated, public education system with fairly paid teachers, and high levels of retention would definitely hurt the working class. 

Ask yourself why the government doesn't want that. Can't have the proles getting educated properly can we? Might start to ask questions.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Mardy is on fire this fine Saturday 

[DeanoL]

I do think it's possible to both be sympathetic to everything that Rose-Colored Boy has posted and agree that rail workers were treated badly during the pandemic, are underpaid, and have to deal with unacceptable levels of public aggression; while at the same time acknowledging that reduced demand should mean a reduction in services which means a reduction in staff which means redundancies. 

The two don't connect up to me, tell me all rail workers that put themselves at risk during the pandemic deserve a bonus payout and I'll agree with that, I'd probably support a strike on that basis and the same should be awarded to doctors and other key workers who were forced to put themselves at risk too.

But the fix for that, the pay back to the workers for that, can't be "so we'll keep you all employed even if there's not work for all of you" - that's problematic because it's both a stop gap (the redundancies will come eventually anyway), it only benefits the few that would have lost their jobs (those that wouldn't gain nothing) and it doesn't properly acknowledge the sacrifice made - it's a pretty much invisible reward to those outside the industry.

I do feel RMT are shooting themselves in the foot a bit by this. They seem to think stressing that it's about "no compulsory redundancies" rather than "pay increases" will gain them more sympathy, but fail to acknowledge pretty much the entire private sector have been through some sort of redundancy/consultation/downsizing process in the past two years. The reaction will just be "well we all had it, why should you be spared?" Hell of a difference these days when people hear "compulsory redundancy" when the reaction isn't "that sounds like it'd be awful" but "yeah that was awful".

Plus businesses have been able to adapt to not having people in the office. Most don't have people back full time. A strike like this won't do much good. What you'll see is probably much higher than usual use of trains on the Mon/Tue as businesses just rearrange their meetings and weeks to fit with the days people can get in. The impact on the festival aside, this won't have much impact because the alternative options are now in place. Honestly we need to be talking either long-term strikes (two weeks, Mon-Fri minimum) or very late notice/random strikes (we'll strike 3 days in June and won't say which days until the day before) to have the sort of impact they used to have. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

One of the problems is that the unions who can most inconvenience the public do tend to have the muscle to be strong in negotiations. I was a local government union rep for years, assisting in negotiations on pay for groups such as classroom assistants, care at home assistants etc. vital jobs for education and care in the community.  These folk won’t strike even if asked to do so and the fucking employers well knew that. So the outcome is a severe shortage of carers and minimum wage salaries. Why work unsocial hours doing intimate personal care when you can get a higher wage in unskilled work elsewhere? Best of luck to the rail workers but society needs to reward those who don’t have the power to withdraw their labour. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Ayrshire Chris

[rhyscork]

6 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Lets be clear - I am not angry 🙂. Not sure how you got that from my posts.

I think you had a bit of smoke blown up your arse with the whole key worker thing.  You was in an exclusive club of millions.  I also think you was one of the lucky ones.  You got to keep your job.  You got to keep working.  You got to keep leaving the house.  You got to keep earning while many others lost theirs.  And don't pretend covid was ever a serious problem for someone of your age.  We all know it wasn't.  Very few people under 50 ever had an issue.  

The world has changed though thanks to covid and I don't think you deserve to be protected from the realities of the world.  People are going to the office less and thats going to have an impact.  I don't think you are special or should have protections others do no enjoy.  If you job isn't needed it should go.

I think calling me selfish is a bit rich lol 🙂 

Love it, I try to have a polite debate and you get this back 😂

I dont know if you were just deliberately mis interpreting what i was saying, or if i wasnt clear enough or what, but hey, thats up to you. 

Lets be ultra clear so there no confusion. I am not special, non of us were special. I was loudly saying we didnt need to be there, but it was insisted that we had to be.

We did not call ourselves key workers. It was rammed down our throats that we were key workers when it suited the people, like yourself and many others who needed us. If this was to happen again, you would be front of the line asking all the transport workers, lorry drivers, shelf stackers, docs, nurses etc etc etc, to do it all again for you, so you or you loved ones could stay isolated and protected. 

"Keeping your job" is always thrown around as if its an insult. I'm very very sorry if any offense was caused to you that I didnt get sacked. Yes we kept our jobs..... because we were still doing our jobs as was required. (FYI sitting in a 4ft x 4ft plastic bubble by yourself with maybe 1 person an hour walking past you, isn't quite the thrill you seem to think it is). However, if people loose their jobs now, then no we won't have kept them, partly what all this is about.....

Never once have i said Covid was a danger or serious issue to me.... you're just making things up now.....

Never once have i claimed to be special.... Never once have i claimed any of my colleges are special... Again, you're making things up to try and score cheep hits. If you disagree thats fine, but its a bit sad if your just going for the lowest hanging fruit. 

You seriously just don't get it and thats fine.

To try and make it as clear as possible so theres no confusion: Its not about me. Its not about you. I am not special. I am not better than you or anyone else. I am not complaining. I am not spinning you a sob story.

Its about the pure principle of being there for the people you needed when they need you. Because the next time you need them, they might not be there anymore...

Its about all those people who DID die so people could sit at home and be protected. Again, I have never said Covid was a danger to me, however it was to a lot of my colleges who did die. All the families of those people who did die. All the kids of those parents who are growing up without a mum or dad. Its the principle of saying, they didn't die for nothing.

The point is the jobs are still required: Do you have any idea how many lives are saved by having staff on a platform? Do you have any idea how many people cant use technology due to disabilities, age, etc etc, who NEED a member of staff in a ticket office? Personally, I think if you are being charged £100s for a train ticket, having a few staff isnt much to ask

Its about all those people who will not be able to afford to live

Its about protecting the working class who take all the rubbish when it suits, while the people at the top take £millions and £billions.

If you read what i said again, I didnt call you Selfish once. I said things were being looked at from a selfish point of view, then also said it wasnt an attack as it was a natural human way of looking at things. Thats VERY different to calling you Selfish. If you want to imply that I am selfish for not wanting to be sacked, then hell yes i am selfish in this regard. If the choice is me loosing my job or you having a few days of your life where you might be delayed for a few hours, then i will pick me not loosing my job every time and if it was the other way around, i would fully expect the same from you.

Finally "If you job isn't needed it should go". Good point! The great news for you here is that luckily if our jobs arent needed, then strikes won't affect you or anyone else at all, as we are not needed anyway so it won't make any difference 😄👍

I'm more than happy to debate and discuss as much as anyone wants, Its important for people to speak to people about issues from opposite points of view, thats how we grow and learn as people. But lets leave the cheep digs and cheep point scoring in the daily mail and the other rags shall we? Peace, Love and Glastonbury 🤘

 

[irnkrtn]

5 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

If teachers went on strike the people it would hurt most is working class people and working class kids.  Join the dots.

Very few people would be supportive as well. 

Teachers go on strike fairly regularly, as do teaching support staff, lecturing staff etc. There was an NEU strike in February this year because a group of schools were looking to withdraw from the teachers pension scheme. In April, NASUWT surveyed teachers clearly in advance of strike action and the vast vast majority were incredibly unhappy with their pay increases and pension. I would expect NASUWT to be out on strike before 2022 is over, and full support to them too. I would much rather it didn't come to that, and they were getting decent pay awards and pensions but that's not where we're at at the moment for workers.

[irnkrtn]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

One of the problems is that the unions who can most inconvenience the public do tend to have the muscle to be strong in negotiations. I was a local government union rep for years, assisting in negotiations on pay for groups such as classroom assistants, care at home assistants etc. vital jobs for education and care in the community.  These folk won’t strike even if asked to do so and the fucking employers well knew that. So the outcome is a severe shortage of carers and minimum wage salaries. Why work unsocial hours doing intimate personal care when you can get a higher wage in unskilled work elsewhere? Best of luck to the rail workers but society needs to reward those who don’t have the power to withdraw their labour. 

They do have the power to withdraw their labour. There are few professions who don't - fire service is one of them. This falls into the role of unions to organise and mobilise in their workplaces. Not an easy job, but that's the bedrock of successful workplace action. "Society" doesn't have the power to do anything. Governments do, employers do...

[Ayrshire Chris]

1 hour ago, irnkrtn said:

They do have the power to withdraw their labour. There are few professions who don't - fire service is one of them. This falls into the role of unions to organise and mobilise in their workplaces. Not an easy job, but that's the bedrock of successful workplace action. "Society" doesn't have the power to do anything. Governments do, employers do...

Honestly in local government we tried to convince carers to join strike action and many, not all,feel they just can’t do it. They are so involved with their clients they can’t bear to see them inconvenienced. The employers cynically use this. These carers are some of the most underpaid and undervalued workers in the country. They save millions by keeping the vulnerable out of hospital and care homes. I know this from personal experience,I’m  married to one!

[irnkrtn]

39 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Honestly in local government we tried to convince carers to join strike action and many, not all,feel they just can’t do it. They are so involved with their clients they can’t bear to see them inconvenienced. The employers cynically use this. These carers are some of the most underpaid and undervalued workers in the country. They save millions by keeping the vulnerable out of hospital and care homes. I know this from personal experience,I’m  married to one!

Oh I don't disagree at all. I know myself how bloody hard it is. Add in the constant messages that they should be lucky with what they get - its a bloody difficult job to convince people they are worth more and its OK for them to seek it. I wish there was a way we could do something different but so much of it is also tied in with the value people who work in the caring professions are held in, and how that impacts on their own sense of self worth.