Crowd control issues

[Badlands]

27 minutes ago, hez said:

What caused the Arcadia/Park issue everyone is talking about? i.e. I am guessing it was around a certain act starting or finishing?

Four Tet finishing at the Park and those from Arcadia trying to get the other way. Then people coming across Pennards towards both. Crackers.

[Dennis22]

Just now, alibear said:

I'm absolutely sure we entered the Arcadia field at path you've circled on the left... We definitely approached form that end at about 9.30.

Yeah I think the one next to it was definitely closed, as I'm 100% sure they had toilets there, but when I went across, it had metal sheeting and was closed off. Maybe for crew camping and had tents next to the boarding.

[Badlands]

27 minutes ago, alibear said:

I heard they'd closed The Park as it was too busy? The bottom entrance to Arcadia was deserted so it can't have simply been a rush to get there after the headliners. I so wish I'd gone to the bottom loos instead, otherwise I wouldn't have got caught in that mess.

Park wasn’t busy, in fact once i squeezed out the crush I darted straight back in as there wasn’t any crowd on the left hand side.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Badlands

[Tranquility of Solitude]

5 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

It's a bit late to complain about the festival being sanitised.

15 quid meals.

Threads on here about where to buy the nicest cheese.

A Co-op on site.

More commercial pop year on year.

Showers and hot tubs.

Glamping up to a cost of a couple thousand pounds.

But you draw the line at people "bleating about health and safety"?

 

Hi

maybe I’m being a wee bit dim here.... but I can’t for the life of me comprehend how a single one of your points (some of which are wildly inaccurate or exaggerated) could possibly be connected to my original post? Were you perhaps trying to respond to somebody else?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Just to have my piece about the security. I've worked at Glastonbury and all the festivals on security and paid steward in although I didn't attend this year's festival. Security is a thankless task with long hours and little time for rest. Usually this staff at work events all year round but COVID has seen paid to that. It seems there are a lot of young inexperienced staff. There is a big difference working the dopt at a nightclub or a pub to work in a festival and you need that experience base to be there. 

However I will say that there are complaints of not enough security or stewarding. If there was not enough boots on the ground on the Tuesday either the police or the council wouldn't have allowed the festival to carry on. Admittedly not as big as Glastonbury but I have worked at festivals where they have had to delay opening the gates

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Rufus Gwertigan

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Alvoram said:

I don't think it has anything to do with the location of the stage, the license restricts sound systems used before 10am Friday to just 12kw... (without the written permission of the licensing authority...) From what I can read in the license they could use up to a 12kw sound system anywhere they like, but 12kw wouldn't work anywhere much bigger. 

Point being, you could surely put a 12kw system in John Peel, it'd just be too quiet, and those at the back wouldn't be able to hear anything. But as many people *would* be able to hear as at William's Green, just the excess people wouldn't all be crammed in to a tiny area creating a crush. It'd still be tight at the front but there'd be places for people to go.

 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Point being, you could surely put a 12kw system in John Peel, it'd just be too quiet, and those at the back wouldn't be able to hear anything. But as many people *would* be able to hear as at William's Green, just the excess people wouldn't all be crammed in to a tiny area creating a crush. It'd still be tight at the front but there'd be places for people to go.

 

It's how the noise can drift along. It carries at night. But what people are essentially saying is start the festival on a Thursday rather than han the Friday. A massive change to the licence and does everything else start earlier like you opening the gate so the car parking

All this need stuff that needs paying for.

 

 

[philipsteak]

1 hour ago, LoraMaze said:

I know some people don’t think it was any busier than normal, but there really did seem to be quite large crowds everywhere. I left Macca because it got a bit intense up the back, and was surprised to get back to our tent in Oxlyers to find Megan had actually drawn in a pretty big crowd. Don’t know if just the good weather bringing everyone out all the time is the reason, or if there really were a lot more people than usual. 

No idea what it was like elsewhere but where we were for Macca had plenty of space. Busy enough there was an atmosphere, but enough space that 10 of us had plenty of room for a dance. 

Sort of inline with the left hand screen, just at the 2nd row of repeaters. 

[LoraMaze]

2 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

No idea what it was like elsewhere but where we were for Macca had plenty of space. Busy enough there was an atmosphere, but enough space that 10 of us had plenty of room for a dance. 

Sort of inline with the left hand screen, just at the 2nd row of repeaters. 

Yeah I’ve heard further forward was better from a few sources at a few different sets. We were only up the back to meet mates for Noel, then decided to stay for at least half Macca’s set only to find our spot turned into a path, and was quickly full of people. I might have tried to go forward but I also saw quite a few people coming up through the crowd looking flustered! Next time I’m going to go straight down the front for some space! 
 

What you’ve described above is like every headliner I’ve seen on the pyramid, not too squashed in, can still dance around.

[Jon F]

On 6/28/2022 at 3:17 PM, Sku said:

The "crust" has been mentioned many times. And it is the key issue in my view.

Watching back some of the footage, it's clear how much space there was down the front at many of acts which were considered "dangerously crowded".

I think the problem is, that the back has actually become the most popular place to watch from. It's convenient for the bars, the toilet, for food. It allows you to arrive at the last minute. It allows you to rush off to the next thing without getting stuck. You can set up a chair or picnic blanket if so inclined.

Again, and again, there were just crazy crushes at the BACK of stages, but not at the front. It used to be the case that you would avoid the front to avoid the crush, but now it's totally reversed. The front is totally sparse, and you are free to move around there. The back is a nightmare.

This is the key thing I think here. Crowd density. It's clear from all the BBC footage that crowds are sparse down front. Everyone is turning up at the last minute, and wanting to stand at the back. And then even if you want to get down the front, you cannot get through the wall of people, blankets and chairs.

A much smaller number of people causes a field to be full than ever before. I mean, there are many other contributing factors, but it's simple science that lower crowd density makes for a busier feeling festival. This is the key issue here, crowd behaviour has changed.

This - we were right up at the barrier for McCartney and was amazed at the amount of space around us compared to previously

[willgooneday]

40 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Just to have my piece about the security. I've worked at Glastonbury and all the festivals on security and paid steward in although I didn't attend this year's festival. Security is a thankless task with long hours and little time for rest. Usually this staff at work events all year round but COVID has seen paid to that. It seems there are a lot of young inexperienced staff. There is a big difference working the dopt at a nightclub or a pub to work in a festival and you need that experience base to be there. 

However I will say that there are complaints of not enough security or stewarding. If there was not enough boots on the ground on the Tuesday either the police or the council wouldn't have allowed the festival to carry on. Admittedly not as big as Glastonbury but I have worked at festivals where they have had to delay opening the gates

 

 

 

 

There was also a huge core of staff who just worked events and didn't do doors, purely because they could get by on the money off the summer festival season working 3-4 days a week (Glasto is unusual in being 5-6 days and that will have broke a number of guards) and a lower number of winters events like football/rugby matches etc. Many of these were young people/students - but a large numbers were ex-army/ex-police or had just been working in the events industry for 5-10 maybe more years and knew how to get work.

These people were partly doing it for the money but also for the sheer love of events, as already mentioned in this thread a lot of them - thousands if not tens of thousands will have left the industry in the past few years. A lot of them - probably all - are not going to return - why would they especially as wages have pretty much stagnated? Very upper management will have stayed the same, but below there'll have been a serious 'brain drain'.

As you say with the not enough - the minimum requirements will have been met to open - the problem is we used to deliberately overstaff festivals to the hilt to account for staff leaving and to provide more visible security for people's feeling safe - especially family ones like Glasto - if as reported 100 security staff jacked it in on Day 1 because they didn't like the working conditions/camping whatever - you might still have had enough to cover critical positions - but you're clearly going to lose a lot of the more visible and active security/stewarding (non-licensed) positions that the public notice such as non-fixed guards or those put in areas where a problem could occur but there's no critical need for them.

What in 2019 would have been a carefully balanced team of students, festival veterans, new security guards to the industry and emergency help drafted in from club doors/supermarket/warehouse teams etc - was probably this year much more brand new guards hired for the festival season, students and people with no idea about festivals drafted help from other sectors. 

All being well over a few years things will correct themselves. 

[Pinhead]

8 hours ago, jimmillen said:

Spot on this - also toilet queues. This was especially bad leaving the Other around towards the Glade where there were always long queues clashing with the flow of people leaving the stage. 

Some way of segregating off toilet/food/bar queues from people moving through would help a lot IMO. Again, tricky to achieve in reality though. 

Sensibly place food stalls and toilet blocks. Tbh - having the stalls right on the main exit from Pyramid to Babylon is a bit of a daft one nowerdays with the size of crowds.

[dulcificum]

19 hours ago, jimmillen said:

I’m not as intimately familiar with the proceedings of the license committee as many on here. Would be genuinely curious to know what the main blockers to more stages & entertainment on Thurs actually are?

I thought it was all about noise levels - they’re willing to accept the massive PAs on the main stages on 3 nights but not 4. So couldn’t they just run some more stages so long as the volume stayed down?

Are there any other reasons? I mean, it would be ludicrous if it’s based on numbers or traffic given the site opens on Weds anyway.

I totally get that the license needs to be respected to ensure the future of the festival. But wouldn’t a proposal that enhances on-site safety whilst causing very little real impact on local residents be at least something to discuss? 

Are they still doing SPL checks at various points around the site as part of noise regulation?

There's no way that John Peel is making more noise offsite at 10pm than IICON is at 5am.

[august1]

I wonder if he has an account here? 👀

[CaledonianGonzo]

lmao its the bloke from off of My Parents Are Aliens

[Rufus Gwertigan]

33 minutes ago, willgooneday said:

There was also a huge core of staff who just worked events and didn't do doors, purely because they could get by on the money off the summer festival season working 3-4 days a week (Glasto is unusual in being 5-6 days and that will have broke a number of guards) and a lower number of winters events like football/rugby matches etc. Many of these were young people/students - but a large numbers were ex-army/ex-police or had just been working in the events industry for 5-10 maybe more years and knew how to get work.

These people were partly doing it for the money but also for the sheer love of events, as already mentioned in this thread a lot of them - thousands if not tens of thousands will have left the industry in the past few years. A lot of them - probably all - are not going to return - why would they especially as wages have pretty much stagnated? Very upper management will have stayed the same, but below there'll have been a serious 'brain drain'.

As you say with the not enough - the minimum requirements will have been met to open - the problem is we used to deliberately overstaff festivals to the hilt to account for staff leaving and to provide more visible security for people's feeling safe - especially family ones like Glasto - if as reported 100 security staff jacked it in on Day 1 because they didn't like the working conditions/camping whatever - you might still have had enough to cover critical positions - but you're clearly going to lose a lot of the more visible and active security/stewarding (non-licensed) positions that the public notice such as non-fixed guards or those put in areas where a problem could occur but there's no critical need for them.

What in 2019 would have been a carefully balanced team of students, festival veterans, new security guards to the industry and emergency help drafted in from club doors/supermarket/warehouse teams etc - was probably this year much more brand new guards hired for the festival season, students and people with no idea about festivals drafted help from other sectors. 

All being well over a few years things will correct themselves. 

Sorry for not cutting your post.

As I remember it all security had to be door man registered They should be sorted in crowd control 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy0808 v5]

11 minutes ago, august1 said:

I wonder if he has an account here? 👀

Probably find him in the Celebs at Glasto thread claiming to have seen him.

Funny bloke! Think he’s a doctor too.

[willgooneday]

18 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Sorry for not cutting your post.

As I remember it all security had to be door man registered They should be sorted in crowd control 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure where I said they didn't? I honestly think the 5-day SIA course is an absolute joke. And nowhere near fit for purpose - I certainly wouldn't consider someone merely being doorman registered as meaning they're in any way a good security guard. It's the equivalent to passing basic training/security check in any other job. 

A hell of a lot of festival security staff were trained at the beginning of the festival season at companies I worked for. I'm out of the industry now but I'd but that number being much higher this year. The license itself is not the same as actually doing the job. Having staff who've been the industry longer is obviously better than having people who've been doing it for a few seasons than people in their first season for festival work. They're going to see issues quicker and escalate things before they become an issue rather than after like in any job. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by willgooneday

[Rufus Gwertigan]

1 minute ago, willgooneday said:

I'm not sure where I said they didn't? A hell of a lot of festival security staff were trained at the beginning of the festival season at companies I worked for. The license itself is not the same as actually doing the job. 

I am sorry I haven't worked a few years. I used to do 12 festivals a summer and worked at the MEN and Academy last time I worked was in the pit for smassive attack I had a stroke shortly after. I should have worked in the CV fields this year but the 12 hour night's were too much 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Earth_pig]

1 hour ago, philipsteak said:

No idea what it was like elsewhere but where we were for Macca had plenty of space. Busy enough there was an atmosphere, but enough space that 10 of us had plenty of room for a dance. 

Sort of inline with the left hand screen, just at the 2nd row of repeaters. 

Same we watched from the front left corner for billie and macca and had ample space. But wow the crowd for TLC and Wet Leg was insane luckily escaped out of wet leg to the pier and played bingo.

[Pinhead]

Seen nothing like the constant stream going to SE Corner I think it was on Sat night about 1am - dunno where they all came from - everything else was shut and quiet and this huge seemingly never ending stream of people crossed the site from West to East to get in via T&C entrance and never seemed to stop!

[Pinhead]

NB - kind of assumed it began at Hayes, maybe Arcadia but crossed the whole site like a stream of marching ants. Followed it I did in my pissed state fascinated...

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, Pinhead said:

dunno where they all came from

At that time they’ll have been coming from Macca

[Pinhead]

But Macca has finished well before that. I picked it up coalescing just before entering Holts coming down the main drag from the South and other streams joined it from Other, then Babylon Markets and I followed it through Holts and T&C and it never seemed to stop coming....

[Badlands]

Macca was a very late finish. Absolutely plausible people couldn’t get across till 1

Edited June 29, 2022 by Badlands