Trainwreck:Woodstock '99 Netflix Doc

[fred quimby]

8 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Always felt that Wodstock itself has been massively romanticised, and that was what was sold to these kids in 99.

My suspicion has been that if we jumped into a Tardis and got out at W69 and walked around for 15 minutes we'd be "this is shit!"

Heard from a few people that were there and they did say it was great and lovely. Drugs were better back then mind. And I am sure we would hate just having a stage and no more entertainment.  So we couldn't compare to being there at the time. 

 

[DeanoL]

36 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Every country or group has a minority of idiots who can't be trusted to go anywhere without acting like twats, you see it whenever England play abroad for example.

Sadly, and despite usually being the minority, these bellends leave the biggest impression.

Yup, but they're expressed in different ways and that's what makes for interesting discussion. For Brits is when there is sun and beaches. For Americans when there is alcohol and university...

I dunno, I just feel the notion that "all Americans are like this" or "all Brits are like that" or "all Chinese are like this" is *so* daft, like, obviously, people are different. So assuming anyone referencing one of these stereotypes actually means "I think all Americans are like this" seems like acting in bad faith to me. I don't think anyone on this board is that stupid, and I'd never assume someone was.

[Alvoram]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Do you think there's no truth to that whatsoever, and Brits in Magaluf are just acting like folk from every other country?

No truth in the fact we as Brits are often thought of like that because of the actions of that minority? Or no truth in the fact that all Brits are like that? 

If you mean the first one, then yes, and that's also xenophobic against us Brits, because it's not true. Which brings us onto the second one, if you meant the second one, then no, we're not all like that, obviously.... 

Brits in Maga are acting the same way as Germans, Russians or any other nationality in Maga, but none of those groups are reflective of their entire respective nations. A lot of the people I know won't go near Maga, Benidorm, Sunny Beach or any other similar resort for this very reason. 

I took my kids on holiday to Majorca when they were much younger, not to Maga, we stayed more S'arenal side of Palma, but we ventured over to that side of the bay one night, and it was a huge group of German youngsters that were being more, erm, shall we say 'boisterous.' Walking along the street, shouting at strangers, harassing girls, kicking things, pissed out their skulls. I won't ever go back to that side of the island, nothing to do with party goers, but because the whole place is a shithole, and unless you want to get wasted, it doesn't feel like there's a lot to do.

My point here is that Maga, like Woodstock, is a bad place to form your views of an entire nation, because it is set up, designed, as a destination to get wasted in (or at least was.) You put youngsters in a place designed to get them wasted, and guess what they'll do? 

[moogster]

It's just that people have the feeling that because it's somewhere else / a party place then it's allowed.

The Dutch youth are often in the news this summer for appalling behaviour. Some of them go to Belgium because the drinking age is 16. Make a mess. So they did this slightly odd psychological warfare thing: sent over a couple of Dutch cops to stroll around with the local police to remind them that  they wouldn't do that in the Netherlands so why do it here.

The French always behave wonderfully of course 😉 (I remember going as a teen on a summer trip abroad where the supervisors were stealing shit where we were... Very sad...)

[hfuhruhurr]

Just watched it and the thin veneer of civilisation proven correct.

Some of the comments on here are lovely and hopeful, but beware of the thickness of that veneer, it's way thinner than we can imagine.

It's wrong to blame individual groups/demographics etc - it's everyone.

[stuartbert two hats]

On 8/4/2022 at 9:47 AM, swede said:

Watched the first part and half of the 2nd last night. Just shows how wild people where at times back then without social media, smartphones, etc. 

The festival didnt even have a litter picking team so went the punters walked in for day 2 and were walking through filth that's when the shit started to hit the fan, the footage of them hurling bottles at Wyclef is insane. As one of the people who worked there said "if you dont look after the festival goers why should they look after you"

I couldn't believe how long the bottle throwing seemed to go on for.  

[stuartbert two hats]

Episode three. Bloody hell.

[henry bear]

You do wonder why Michael Lang thought that handing out all those candles would lead to good things? 😳

[BlackZeppelin]

27 minutes ago, henry bear said:

You do wonder why Michael Lang thought that handing out all those candles would lead to good things? 😳

Absolutely mental, they'd nearly made it through.

Not a particularly helpful encore by RHCP

[stuartbert two hats]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:11 PM, tarw said:

Sorry like you I don’t want to get into point scoring and straw man was me just being lazy. 
 

I didn’t want to get into a debate I was merely letting Alvoram know they were not alone in lamenting how much more judgemental the average Glastonbury goer is now. 
 

That’s not aimed at you it’s a generalisation 😉

To be honest, I'm way less country phobic than I was in 1999. It's not racism, exactly, but feeling smug and blaming "the bloody Americans" a month after a lovely Glastonbury was the prevalent tone of conversation at the time. 

Edit: we actually said the fucking yanks.

Edited August 17, 2022 by stuartbert two hats

[stuartbert two hats]

12 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Who's bright idea was it to hold Woodstock - the literal embodiment of flower power and 60's counter culture - on a fucking military base?? 

Can you imagine the piss film critics would take out of putting something like that in a film if it hadn't happened? Way too on the nose!

[stuartbert two hats]

48 minutes ago, henry bear said:

You do wonder why Michael Lang thought that handing out all those candles would lead to good things? 😳

He's a fucking joke, that's why. Makes me love "our Michael" all the more.

That's too on the nose as well, the name being the same. God's screenwriter did a terrible job on this one.

Edited August 17, 2022 by stuartbert two hats

[Quark]

10 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

He's a fucking joke, that's why. Makes me love "our Michael" all the more.

That's too on the nose as well, the name being the same. God's screenwriter did a terrible job on this one.

Lang came across badly, but had nothing on John Scher.  He made my skin crawl every time he spoke, just the worst parts of everything about that nightmare all wrapped up into a single bastard.

[stuartbert two hats]

4 minutes ago, Quark said:

Lang came across badly, but had nothing on John Scher.  He made my skin crawl every time he spoke, just the worst parts of everything about that nightmare all wrapped up into a single bastard.

He seemed to be aware of what a bastard he was.  Lang still seemed to be operating under the misapprehension that he had put on some wonderful event for the ages, where everyone was looked after and everything was fine.

[Quark]

13 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

He seemed to be aware of what a bastard he was.  Lang still seemed to be operating under the misapprehension that he had put on some wonderful event for the ages, where everyone was looked after and everything was fine.

That's worse for me. Lang seemed a mix of naive and delusional. Scher knew exactly what he was doing, and still refused to acknowledge anything wrong. Cast iron shitbiscuit.

[Alvoram]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

That's worse for me. Lang seemed a mix of naive and delusional. Scher knew exactly what he was doing, and still refused to acknowledge anything wrong. Cast iron shitbiscuit.

I felt bad for lang (maybe naivety on my part) I got the sense that he was just the figure head, the connection to the original, that Scher was pulling the strings, including his... 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Alvoram

[Hugh Jass II]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:45 AM, Quark said:

Lang came across badly, but had nothing on John Scher.  He made my skin crawl every time he spoke, just the worst parts of everything about that nightmare all wrapped up into a single bastard.

Scher's "the rapes were no worse than your average city" comment drew an audible "Fucking hell!!!" from Mrs J.

Not one of the organisers and promoters were prepared to take any responsibility for how bad things got, even 20+ years later, not sure if it's due to the litigious nature of American society making them fearful of legal reprisals if they do, or if they just arrogantly believe they were not at fault - Lang was in complete denial about the whole thing.

[hfuhruhurr]

7 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Scher's "the rapes were no worse than your average city" comment drew an audible "Fucking hell!!!" from Mrs J.

It is an absolute fucking hell and with a conviction rate next to zero. He wasn't wrong, that's the nightmare. 

[Gingerfish79]

I thought it was shocking how many fundamental planning mistakes were made by people who were supposedly experts at putting on huge music events.

I then couldn’t believe how, once they realised on day two that things were starting to unravel and the mood was darkening, they did absolutely nothing to change the outcome and rather doubled down and ignored the evidence in front of their faces! 

The behaviour of a shockingly large group of people was sickening to see. To think a lot of those ‘frat bros’ are now probably running businesses, lawyering  or teaching kids is not pleasant.

The only moment when I thought, wow I wish I was there was at the start of that set by Korn when the whole crowd was bouncing as one. Incredible scene.

[steviewevie]

ok, I am going to watch this...will report back with my wize and  profound insights (but I am expecting it to be everything is shit and humans are all a bunch of fucking c**ts and limp bizkit are the culmination of all that)

[Crazyfool01]

Might need to subscribe solely to watch it 🙂 

[charlierc]

48 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

I thought it was shocking how many fundamental planning mistakes were made by people who were supposedly experts at putting on huge music events.

I then couldn’t believe how, once they realised on day two that things were starting to unravel and the mood was darkening, they did absolutely nothing to change the outcome and rather doubled down and ignored the evidence in front of their faces! 

The behaviour of a shockingly large group of people was sickening to see. To think a lot of those ‘frat bros’ are now probably running businesses, lawyering  or teaching kids is not pleasant.

The only moment when I thought, wow I wish I was there was at the start of that set by Korn when the whole crowd was bouncing as one. Incredible scene.

The candle thing was well intentioned but it was pretty remarkable that they were aware just how bad the vibe was after the first 2 days and still thought "Yeah, let's do the candle thing". It seems baffling to me that you just wouldn't read the room like that.

That and for all I have recounted the experience of going to Reading 2011 to find a hole above a pile as a toilet to be horrible, at least that system looked designed in a way to avoid leakage on a scale of that Sunday in Woodstock 99, which I'm surprised didn't cause more of an illness epidemic.

[charlierc]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:53 AM, Hugh Jass II said:

Always felt that Wodstock itself has been massively romanticised, and that was what was sold to these kids in 99.

My suspicion has been that if we jumped into a Tardis and got out at W69 and walked around for 15 minutes we'd be "this is shit!"

I mean, there's multiple layers to it tbf. On the one hand, stories I've read of some of the shit that didn't go to plan gave me the suspicion the 1970 Woodstock documentary did a lot of the heavy lifting in framing it is an amazing once-in-a-lifetime brilliant event when so much of it was messily organised and barely avoided going wrong

At the same time, it's such a wildly different feel that it looks tricky to compare to today's hyper-commercial festivals with multiple stages and non-music entertainment options, plus it did have the air of being the zenith of that era of culture. That and there's still the testimony from thousands who were there said it was fucking amazing and the best thing ever.

So... pfft, I dunno. There'd be great bits and really shit bits imo.

On 8/17/2022 at 10:54 AM, Hugh Jass II said:

Who's bright idea was it to hold Woodstock - the literal embodiment of flower power and 60's counter culture - on a fucking military base?? 

Yeah that was quite something. It's almost the stuff of an absurdist satire. And not least the thing about the perimeter fence being branded a "peace wall", which does feel like a very odd way to phrase it.

[steviewevie]

just finished it...looked amazing...apart from Bush of course.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 hours ago, Gingerfish79 said:

I thought it was shocking how many fundamental planning mistakes were made by people who were supposedly experts at putting on huge music events.

I then couldn’t believe how, once they realised on day two that things were starting to unravel and the mood was darkening, they did absolutely nothing to change the outcome and rather doubled down and ignored the evidence in front of their faces! 

The behaviour of a shockingly large group of people was sickening to see. To think a lot of those ‘frat bros’ are now probably running businesses, lawyering  or teaching kids is not pleasant.

The only moment when I thought, wow I wish I was there was at the start of that set by Korn when the whole crowd was bouncing as one. Incredible scene.

Wasn't Woodstock 94 relatively well organised? Surely they would have an idea on what was required from a facilities point of view? It seems as if they were more negligent and greedy than incompetent, although they were clearly very incompetent.