Cost of Living and Glastonbury

[balti-pie]

5 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

They weren't, but I am a big fan of DIY culture. I'm not looking for a return to those days, lack of "official" post midnight entertainment was a problem.

Somewhere in between would be ideal.

I get a bit of that kind of vibe from babylon uprising, a nice little sound system bunged in the midst of all the food and shop stalls in the marketplace - im always confused about where precisely to find it, but its a great little bit of idiosyncracy tucked away. Definitely worth stumbling along and finding! 

[p.pete]

38 minutes ago, balti-pie said:

I get a bit of that kind of vibe from babylon uprising, a nice little sound system bunged in the midst of all the food and shop stalls in the marketplace - im always confused about where precisely to find it, but its a great little bit of idiosyncracy tucked away. Definitely worth stumbling along and finding! 

Is that the bit through the gap (as you're walking away from the pyramid) beyond the bandstand?

[balti-pie]

4 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Is that the bit through the gap (as you're walking away from the pyramid) beyond the bandstand?

yes! (i think) i tend to approach it from Muddy lane, and never quite know whether to take the first turn or the second one, but i tend to get there nonetheless . . . 

[p.pete]

33 minutes ago, balti-pie said:

yes! (i think) i tend to approach it from Muddy lane, and never quite know whether to take the first turn or the second one, but i tend to get there nonetheless . . . 

Ah cool - in that case from muddy lane you can either turn right opposite Williams Green, which takes you to the Bandstand and then left at the bandstand through the hedge, or walk past williams green and then turn right (left going off toward the circus).  I think those options are 2nd & 3rd turnings after you come out from muddy line (1st turning going to cider bus)

It's starting to come back to me 😄 

[stuie]

44 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Is that the bit through the gap (as you're walking away from the pyramid) beyond the bandstand?

 

[kingbadger]

I earn just under the national average salary. But then I'm single and rent a place on my own. No real savings but no debts at all. Where do I place in the class debate?

A lot to be said for people who co-habit. Two people sharing rent/utilities makes a world of difference. 

[clarkete]

3 hours ago, Skip997 said:

They weren't, but I am a big fan of DIY culture. I'm not looking for a return to those days, lack of "official" post midnight entertainment was a problem.

Somewhere in between would be ideal.

Yeah I get what you mean entirely, I think sometimes when you refer to the good old days it's just important to see that there were too sides to it - folks younger than you and I read such posts and think "I wish I was there before the fence, that's the festival I would have loved" and I did certainly, but there were issues that would mean it couldn't exist today.  

BTW the 50th anniversary programme I referred to is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it - there are more eloquent folks than I covering the good and bad of those wild times. 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, clarkete said:

Yeah I get what you mean entirely, I think sometimes when you refer to the good old days it's just important to see that there were too sides to it - folks younger than you and I read such posts and think "I wish I was there before the fence, that's the festival I would have loved" and I did certainly, but there were issues that would mean it couldn't exist today.  

BTW the 50th anniversary programme I referred to is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it - there are more eloquent folks than I covering the good and bad of those wild times. 

Seen the programme, it's very good.

Yea I know there were issues that would prevent it happening these days.

I find it amusing, entertaining and almost embarrassing (although I love it really) when youngsters ask me what it used to be like. They really enjoy listening to my tales and thoughts, I think it may add to their festival experience - "hey guess what this old hippy told me last night!"

[clarkete]

19 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Seen the programme, it's very good.

Yea I know there were issues that would prevent it happening these days.

I find it amusing, entertaining and almost embarrassing (although I love it really) when youngsters ask me what it used to be like. They really enjoy listening to my tales and thoughts, I think it may add to their festival experience - "hey guess what this old hippy told me last night!"

It certainly was extraordinary times, eye opening for me as a teenager who had not long moved from Yorkshire.  Loved it so much I've always come back. 

As you're no doubt aware, back in those days Glastonbury was merely one point the travellers went to during summer, but it did start to provoke the ire of some of the landowners in Somerset - some councillors wanted to arrange sites they could use so as not to upset farmers, but the tories of course weren't so keen. 

[Alvoram]

12 hours ago, kingbadger said:

I earn just under the national average salary. But then I'm single and rent a place on my own. No real savings but no debts at all. Where do I place in the class debate?

A lot to be said for people who co-habit. Two people sharing rent/utilities makes a world of difference. 

We're a household of 4!!! Us and our 2 grown up kids. Individually we don't earn a great deal, but all of us work so, if you combine our incomes, it puts us way over all quoted 'middle class household income' thresholds.

It's bollocks though, and that was my point earlier, though some people seem to have missed the point.

This whole debate that's been raging on these forums for months is bollocks. Nobody knows just what other people's circumstances and backgrounds are from outside appearances... I grew up in a council house, with a single mum on benefits, (until she met my awesome (step) Dad, who worked his ass off to provide for kids who weren't his by blood.) OH's parents were travellers, she spent some time staying in a place they called tipi valley, (in Wales I think?) Before moving onto Europe and eventually settling in a converted horse truck in Spain until she was 16. We both come from very humble backgrounds.

We've spent our later lives working our asses off to give our kids a decent upbringing, and now we're able to enjoy doing some of the things we enjoy doing, like paying for a few comforts at Glasto. If that means we're now middle class in some people's eyes, and they have a problem with it, then that's their problem not ours, and honestly, f*** 'em. 🤷‍♂️

[clarkete]

5 hours ago, Alvoram said:

OH's parents were travellers, she spent some time staying in a place they called tipi valley, (in Wales I think?) Before moving onto Europe and eventually settling in a converted horse truck in Spain until she was 16. 

All very true.

This bit clearly stands out as an extraordinary tale. 

Couple of links that came up

https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/

https://www.rjinman.uk/single-post/2016/08/29/Tipi-Valley-Wales

[dotdash79]

Whilst it’s not exactly biting now, with a recession now happening expect to see companies starting to make cut backs.
 

We’ve had a restructuring where I work and my job is at risk. Hopefully I will be fine but it’s certainly put the breaks on for us, which has a knock on for others. 

[Hugh Jass II]

The obsession with class on here constantly bemuses me. It’s like people think we still live 150 ago years when society was neatly broken up into three distinct categories.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Hugh Jass II

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, dotdash79 said:

Whilst it’s not exactly biting now, with a recession now happening expect to see companies starting to make cut backs.
 

We’ve had a restructuring where I work and my job is at risk. Hopefully I will be fine but it’s certainly put the breaks on for us, which has a knock on for others. 

I think they said 500k jobs are likely to go …. That’s not small numbers 

[Alvoram]

5 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I think they said 500k jobs are likely to go …. That’s not small numbers 

There still seems to be a lot more unskilled work than jobseekers available… Balance??? 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Alvoram said:

There still seems to be a lot more unskilled work than jobseekers available… Balance??? 

Unskilled poorly paid work 

[Alvoram]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Unskilled poorly paid work 

That’s very true, but many of the 500k jobs to go will be unskilled too, with hospitality being hit hard and multiple pubs closing each week. Lots of other unskilled jobs will go.
 

Plus Min wage in April goes up to £10.42, 40 x that makes £416 per week, or £21.5k… Any more and you’ll be ‘middle class.’ 😜 (Yes this is a tongue in cheek joke before anybody says anything!) 

[Alvoram]

41 minutes ago, clarkete said:

All very true.

This bit clearly stands out as an extraordinary tale. 

Couple of links that came up

https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/

https://www.rjinman.uk/single-post/2016/08/29/Tipi-Valley-Wales

Yeh she had an interesting start to life. There’s a book written, and available on Kindle unlimited, largely about her parents life, but includes a lot on her own story too…

Sadly some of it is inaccurate, so I’d rather not share it, or more accurately our links to it, publicly. 

[clarkete]

35 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

There still seems to be a lot more unskilled work than jobseekers available… Balance??? 

Yeah the government are trying to squeeze folks from benefits into some form of work aren't they based on the budget?

Anecdotally there are still IT jobs currently.  Plus we all know that the NHS is losing people as quickly as they recruit - I've been to A&E several times recently and that seems every bit as hard as the headlines suggest, bless those poor folks. 

[gfa]

Can’t wait for Peter Kay to call us all middle class when he does the pyramid

[gigpusher]

7 hours ago, Alvoram said:

We're a household of 4!!! Us and our 2 grown up kids. Individually we don't earn a great deal, but all of us work so, if you combine our incomes, it puts us way over all quoted 'middle class household income' thresholds.

It's bollocks though, and that was my point earlier, though some people seem to have missed the point.

This whole debate that's been raging on these forums for months is bollocks. Nobody knows just what other people's circumstances and backgrounds are from outside appearances... I grew up in a council house, with a single mum on benefits, (until she met my awesome (step) Dad, who worked his ass off to provide for kids who weren't his by blood.) OH's parents were travellers, she spent some time staying in a place they called tipi valley, (in Wales I think?) Before moving onto Europe and eventually settling in a converted horse truck in Spain until she was 16. We both come from very humble backgrounds.

We've spent our later lives working our asses off to give our kids a decent upbringing, and now we're able to enjoy doing some of the things we enjoy doing, like paying for a few comforts at Glasto. If that means we're now middle class in some people's eyes, and they have a problem with it, then that's their problem not ours, and honestly, f*** 'em. 🤷‍♂️

Class is a state of mind as much as the money in your bank account. I am now quite comfortable relatively speaking but grew up at many times very poor. I don't think poverty ever leaves you and someone who has always had my current household income vs someone who has had my journey to my household income will be worlds apart. There's also how you have your wealth. Have you worked for it entirely or been given many handouts from a support network? All these things shape you, your politics and your feelings of what class you are. It's why you can have very rich people who still care and have a conscience about poorer people. People who have experienced poverty will always try and help more than those who have no experience of it. It's why it's so damaging how many of our politicians are privately educated as they are likely to have no knowledge or experience of how tough life can be. 

I remember chatting to 2 teachers once one worked in a working class area and one was in a much more affluent area. The one in the working class area said that any time they did charity drives for food banks etc they got a great response whereas the more affluent area apparently didn't ever get a great response. People who have used food banks themselves are much more likely to go on to donate to them. 

 

[sauceageroll]

On 11/17/2022 at 11:24 AM, balti-pie said:

Yes! possibly! i'll be working it, so can probs bring along a couple of crates. Hit me up nearer the time! Its entirely down to which footy team you support though 🤣🤣 

Top man, much obliged. Both Pars fans so unless you’ve got an FK postcode we’re all good right? 😂

[balti-pie]

22 minutes ago, sauceageroll said:

Top man, much obliged. Both Pars fans so unless you’ve got an FK postcode we’re all good right? 😂

as long as you're not Old Firm (though that said, i had a beer with a Rangers fella from here at the last festival and he was great) or Hearts, you're absolutely golden with me! i've adopted Clachnacuddin from the Highland league, been up to see them a couple of times and its great up there - i've weirdly fallen in love with scottish footy 

 

[Sorcha17]

4 minutes ago, balti-pie said:

as long as you're not Old Firm (though that said, i had a beer with a Rangers fella from here at the last festival and he was great) or Hearts, you're absolutely golden with me! i've adopted Clachnacuddin from the Highland league, been up to see them a couple of times and its great up there - i've weirdly fallen in love with scottish footy 

 

Fellow old firm hater here - Ross County all the way 

[MrHew]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:51 AM, Skip997 said:

For me the things that led to a significant change in the demographic attending the festival were: the riot in 1990, the introduction of the "super fence" and the increasing media coverage.

In my early days the demographic was in a way more diverse: travelers, lots of hippy types, gangs of bikers, punks, anarchist types and much larger numbers of black inner city types with sound systems. It at least to my eyes seemed to largely be alternative and "underground" types, more of a word of mouth event, rather than a media driven/bucket list/must be sen there event.

Again, my opinion and perception; I think there were far more unique and interesting characters there, you were never quite sure what or who you'd bump into, making for (IMO) a more unpredictable and edgy (in a good/fun way) experience. My opinion/perception; the demographic these days seems so much more generic and homogenized.

I didn't start going until the mid 90s but even then it seemed more edgy and you'd have know idea what/who you'd find round the next corner. 

You mentioned elsewhere the DIY thing and that's also missing these days. People seemed far more willing to create entertainment collaboratively, even if that was just bringing a drum to the stones and joining in. 

I really miss that, but that's just me. If I was an 18 year old going for the 1st time now I have no doubt I'd still be blown away.