Cost of Living and Glastonbury

[gooner1990]

9 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

I think all normal people (as in not loaded millionaires) are feeling the pinch but it's just where people decide to cut back that differs from person to person.

You have to remember some people previously had a lot of disposable income, now they'll have less but still some. There are people on these forums who frequently went to 3-4 festivals a year maybe now they are only going to 2. I always thought Glastonbury will be the last to feel the pinch because they may well be expensive for food and drink but they give people the option to be able to bring their own, the most varied line up means that it's a good option to cover lots of different genres.

Also people may cut back on foreign holidays and use Glastonbury as one of their holidays.

I know I personally have tightened my belt in lots of other areas to protect my ability to go to Glastonbury from changing internet provider, to being careful with electricity and gas, introducing a gig ticket price limit, buying less vinyl, not spending much on clothes etc.

Three festivals per summer is my absolute limit these days, sometimes its two...I used to do four or five back in the day.

I also don't go on flash holidays and when Glastonbury is getting close I might just be a little bit more careful with the pay packets in April and May (I usually get paid whilst at the festival for June) than normal so I know I have enough to buy stuff for the festival.....I also don't have children (yet! 😄 ) so that makes a big difference. 

I also bring a lot of my alcohol in and limit myself to two bought meals per day, sometimes its just one.

[incident]

20 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

I wonder if this crosses over to Festivals too? 

I think it's fair to say it's a mixed bag with Festivals.

Clearly Glastonbury still has insane demand levels, and there are certainly others still with strong sales (Green Man has already sold out for next year and Shambala will also do so before they announce a band - just as both did this year as well) but that's not universally true across the industry.

BlueDot is taking a year off (and realistically, it'll very likely be permanent) after what were reported to be genuinely dreadful sales this year (and some very bad luck with weather) - some reports said that anecdotally they felt like there were less than half the number of people on site compared to some previous years.

Similar case for NASS, which has blamed the increase in operational costs as making it impossible to put on their type of show. I think there's a fair few other festivals that are probably sailing close to the wind, and it wouldn't be a surprise if a year from now we're talking about losing a couple more. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two currently announced for next year don't make it to the starting line.

Edited November 27, 2023 by incident

[Skip997]

13 minutes ago, incident said:

 Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two currently announced for next year don't make it to the starting line.

And yet Boardmasters are applying to increase capacity

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67542992

[incident]

2 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And yet Boardmasters are applying to increase capacity

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67542992

Yep, as I said, it's a mixed bag.

Boardmasters seem to have found their niche being an alternative to R+L as the "first festival" for the 16-18 year olds.

[dotdash79]

I think the biggest festivals will be okay and the smaller ones that are built on reputation and specialised offerings will do well.

The middle sized ones that live or die on the line up are most at risk. 

[dotdash79]

1 minute ago, incident said:

Yep, as I said, it's a mixed bag.

Boardmasters seem to have found their niche being an alternative to R+L as the "first festival" for the 16-18 year olds.

Newquay in the summer is the perfect place for a festival, aimed at 16-20 year olds. 

[Alvoram]

33 minutes ago, stuie said:

Getting a bit carried away there mate.  🙂 

In general, I think it does apply to festivals too but everyone's different.  I'd skip my holiday abroad before I cut out any festivals but that doesn't apply to everyone.  Some people who do multiple festivals per year may cut back on one or two of them.  We're already aware of several high profile cancellations to the festival calendar next year so I think they are questioning if the demand will be there. 

 

Why's that? Project Horizon will begin construction next year, and Bianca Sammut confirmed the purchase of new flats (though no date on them, everybody assumes it's next year, but may not be.)

[stuie]

12 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Why's that? Project Horizon will begin construction next year, and Bianca Sammut confirmed the purchase of new flats (though no date on them, everybody assumes it's next year, but may not be.)

I reckon they will get one flat ride at best for next year and Project Horizon will have a 2025 start.  It's not confirmed that it will be a coaster yet either.  Two years in a row for high cap ex projects is unlikely and they've still got to sort out Hex and Skyride.

In context to the original post, capital projects are decided years in advance and well before the cost of living crisis, so these plans haven't been made to capture more people staying in the UK for their holiday 🙂 

[Alvoram]

6 minutes ago, stuie said:

I reckon they will get one flat ride at best for next year and Project Horizon will have a 2025 start.  It's not confirmed that it will be a coaster yet either.  Two years in a row for high cap ex projects is unlikely and they've still got to sort out Hex and Skyride.

In context to the original post, capital projects are decided years in advance and well before the cost of living crisis, so these plans haven't been made to capture more people staying in the UK for their holiday 🙂 

I was one of the biggest doubters on Horizon being a coaster, as far as I know it was me that first picked up on the fact that the plans were a just copy and paste from Exodus, when excited folks spotted snippets of the plans referring to it as a coaster. I put that information out there and lots of influencers ran with it.

But now the coaster is confirmed, I had it confirmed in person by John Wardley himself at the Nemesis farewell weekend in 2022. (Chatting with him, he also confirmed Horizon was the groundbreaking rollercoaster technology coming to Towers that he referred to in that famous Q&A session.) 

John also slipped up and referred to Project Horizon as "SW9" in an interview with Lift Hills & Thrills. 



(He absolutely approved of my hoodie, I never asked him, he never mentioned it, but you just know he did 😉 )

2 years in a row for a high capex project at towers is strange, but it's been a strange 11 years since Smiler opening in 2013. The Smiler incident, then Covid and now the economic crisis have changed things massively. We've seen the Duel refit and Sub Terra this year, that level of investment alongside a big coaster build / retrack is also weird. Having said that Nemesis retrack is not an SW project either, despite the excitement around it, it's essentially just overdue upkeep and maintenance. SW9 was due this year, we have always gotten a secret weapon at least every 5 years. Obviously Covid pushed that back. 

My understanding is that the only reason Horizon hasn't started already is because they're waiting on the archeological survey, and the green light from that. 

My feelings are that Merlin recognise the desperate need for capacity at Towers, bought in the retro squad as a temporary measure, whilst they planned / moved forward / bought back all of these investments we're seeing now. 

You could well be right about the flats though, that's all still a bit of a 'he said she said.' I only have the word of people I trust on that, and no personal knowledge or solid information. Even the source of the original information has no solid info on dates. 

On your last point, you're absolutely right. The major projects, Horizon, and the retrack at least, would have been in the pipeline for years. As I mentioned above, I actually believe they've been delayed! However, covid led to massive capacity issues at Towers, which is why the retro squad was brought in in the first place. Those capacity issues initially centred around distancing and extra cleaning on rides etc, but quickly shifted to good old fashioned 'too many visitors in the park' due to revenge tourism. It's possible that some of these smaller projects, Sub Terra, new flats, etc, have been planned in the last 3 years to add capacity to the park and negate the need to rent crappy little fair rides every season.

I fully expect Hex to be operating next year. (Who knows, maybe a Vekoma Madhouse is one of the flats purchased, nobody said they had to be new concepts, just new hardware.) 

[Chicken Bob]

4 hours ago, Jacko45 said:

 

The food options are genuinely endless mate, you can spend £5 up to £17 quid for a meal. 

There is an initiative on certain stalls site-wide that offer £5 meals or there was last year, I found that a little hit and miss, some you'd get a really good portion, others abit of a piss-take. 

Everyone has their different ways - but we'd make brekky at camp then have a snack round lunch (share something) then main meal on the evening, so it wasn't insanely pricy. 

Beers from memory were about £6/£6.50 a pint, again we'd chuck loads of cans in a rucksack each for the day, with a decent cool bag inside a rucksack they'd last until we ran out. I'd only have 2/3 pints a day from the vendors. 

Food for a fiver was didn’t exist last year. It was upped to £6

[Alvoram]

Just now, Chicken Bob said:

Food for a fiver was didn’t exist last year. It was upped to £6

On the plus side though, it did seem to be available from more vendors than the £5 meal was in 2022... Or at least more visible. 

[Chicken Bob]

1 minute ago, Alvoram said:

On the plus side though, it did seem to be available from more vendors than the £5 meal was in 2022... Or at least more visible. 

I wouldn’t be using that deal anyway. The food vendors get rinsed enough by the festival without having to give away their profits for bugger all. If people can afford a ticket they can afford a 10-12 quid  for a meal. I only have meal a day anyway before hitting the whites. 👃🏽 🤪

[efcfanwirral]

1 hour ago, incident said:

Yep, as I said, it's a mixed bag.

Boardmasters seem to have found their niche being an alternative to R+L as the "first festival" for the 16-18 year olds.

Its an absolute trek away from anywhere too!

[Leyrulion]

2 hours ago, Skip997 said:

And yet Boardmasters are applying to increase capacity

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67542992

Bigger more successful fests hoovering up capacity from smaller fests shutting down isn't really disproving the point. 

That extra 5k for Boardmasters might even be what helps them stay at break even!

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Leyrulion

[stuie]

4 hours ago, Alvoram said:

I was one of the biggest doubters on Horizon being a coaster, as far as I know it was me that first picked up on the fact that the plans were a just copy and paste from Exodus, when excited folks spotted snippets of the plans referring to it as a coaster. I put that information out there and lots of influencers ran with it.

But now the coaster is confirmed, I had it confirmed in person by John Wardley himself at the Nemesis farewell weekend in 2022. (Chatting with him, he also confirmed Horizon was the groundbreaking rollercoaster technology coming to Towers that he referred to in that famous Q&A session.) 

John also slipped up and referred to Project Horizon as "SW9" in an interview with Lift Hills & Thrills. 



(He absolutely approved of my hoodie, I never asked him, he never mentioned it, but you just know he did 😉 )

2 years in a row for a high capex project at towers is strange, but it's been a strange 11 years since Smiler opening in 2013. The Smiler incident, then Covid and now the economic crisis have changed things massively. We've seen the Duel refit and Sub Terra this year, that level of investment alongside a big coaster build / retrack is also weird. Having said that Nemesis retrack is not an SW project either, despite the excitement around it, it's essentially just overdue upkeep and maintenance. SW9 was due this year, we have always gotten a secret weapon at least every 5 years. Obviously Covid pushed that back. 

My understanding is that the only reason Horizon hasn't started already is because they're waiting on the archeological survey, and the green light from that. 

My feelings are that Merlin recognise the desperate need for capacity at Towers, bought in the retro squad as a temporary measure, whilst they planned / moved forward / bought back all of these investments we're seeing now. 

You could well be right about the flats though, that's all still a bit of a 'he said she said.' I only have the word of people I trust on that, and no personal knowledge or solid information. Even the source of the original information has no solid info on dates. 

On your last point, you're absolutely right. The major projects, Horizon, and the retrack at least, would have been in the pipeline for years. As I mentioned above, I actually believe they've been delayed! However, covid led to massive capacity issues at Towers, which is why the retro squad was brought in in the first place. Those capacity issues initially centred around distancing and extra cleaning on rides etc, but quickly shifted to good old fashioned 'too many visitors in the park' due to revenge tourism. It's possible that some of these smaller projects, Sub Terra, new flats, etc, have been planned in the last 3 years to add capacity to the park and negate the need to rent crappy little fair rides every season.

I fully expect Hex to be operating next year. (Who knows, maybe a Vekoma Madhouse is one of the flats purchased, nobody said they had to be new concepts, just new hardware.) 

Excellent information! Thank you. Suprised none of the heads over on TS have said this yet, it’s the first confirmation I’ve seen of a coaster. And if it came from JW himself, I’ll take it. 

Sorry everyone for hijacking the thread talking about coasters! 😀

[Alvoram]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Excellent information! Thank you. Suprised none of the heads over on TS have said this yet, it’s the first confirmation I’ve seen of a coaster. And if it came from JW himself, I’ll take it. 

Sorry everyone for hijacking the thread talking about coasters! 😀

I don't use TS, I was always on TT until the change to Attraction Source, now I only use Coaster Force. I think there's only Matt N over on TS that knows what John told me, and I asked him not to say anything. He's a good kid (not so much a kid anymore haha) so it doesn't surprise me to know he kept his word. Plus, even if he had told anybody, it's still just the word of some goon. There was only me, John, and some Merlin / Towers handler looking after him that day, there to hear it.  

I forgot to mention John Burton's trolling too, or we assume trolling. Wouldn't be the first time he's done something everybody assumed was a wind up, because it was too obvious, only for it to turn out to be true. Imagine that, it is an RMC family coaster afterall... (I doubt it, the wind up was too obvious, even for JB. But on the other hand, it was an official Merlin Q&A video, and would they allow that kind of trolling in an official video? You never know, and we can hope.)
 

 

[IBCanon]

11 hours ago, Jacko45 said:

 

The food options are genuinely endless mate, you can spend £5 up to £17 quid for a meal. 

There is an initiative on certain stalls site-wide that offer £5 meals or there was last year, I found that a little hit and miss, some you'd get a really good portion, others abit of a piss-take. 

Everyone has their different ways - but we'd make brekky at camp then have a snack round lunch (share something) then main meal on the evening, so it wasn't insanely pricy. 

Beers from memory were about £6/£6.50 a pint, again we'd chuck loads of cans in a rucksack each for the day, with a decent cool bag inside a rucksack they'd last until we ran out. I'd only have 2/3 pints a day from the vendors. 

Thanks a lot! Are there any shops of places to get icecubes at the festival? Not easy for me to drink hot beer😅

[IBCanon]

11 hours ago, stuie said:

Food £10-15 for a good meal. 

Beers £6/7

Cash or card is fine most places. 

Thanks a lot! 

[IBCanon]

10 hours ago, maelzoid said:

The co-op supermarket is also a very affordable option. Their meal is alright - 6 quid I think it was. But you can also get enough for breakfast and even supper there, with a bit of planning and the right gear.

I am a big fan of bringing all my breakfasts in with me, but that's as much to do with finding and queuing for food first thing as a cash-saving exercise.

But it all helps, and its far easier to do at Glastonbury compared to many other fests that don't have  a supermarket.

I understand. We will probably use the Co-op for buying breakfast and then just try the different meals available at the festivals. Thanks a lot!

[Alvoram]

1 hour ago, IBCanon said:

Thanks a lot! Are there any shops of places to get icecubes at the festival? Not easy for me to drink hot beer😅

A few places sell ice, including coop.

Another option is taking spirits (in plastic bottles) and buying cold mixers from vendors or coop to keep costs down. Keeps the pack weight down too.

 

[IBCanon]

3 hours ago, Alvoram said:

A few places sell ice, including coop.

Another option is taking spirits (in plastic bottles) and buying cold mixers from vendors or coop to keep costs down. Keeps the pack weight down too.

 

Yeah, I will do that. Bring some spirits and then just ordering the soft drinks for the mixing. Thanks a lot for the tip!

[philipsteak]

16 hours ago, balti-pie said:

Its all barrel-aged imperial stouts and trained therapy squirrels now tbf 

 

(i would absolutely keep a therapy squirrel if i could get one, without a doubt) 

A mate who lives in one of the remoter lake District valley sent me this the other day.

Don't know whether it was providing therapy or just a house invasion

[philipsteak]

13 hours ago, Alvoram said:

I was one of the biggest doubters on Horizon being a coaster, as far as I know it was me that first picked up on the fact that the plans were a just copy and paste from Exodus, when excited folks spotted snippets of the plans referring to it as a coaster. I put that information out there and lots of influencers ran with it.

But now the coaster is confirmed, I had it confirmed in person by John Wardley himself at the Nemesis farewell weekend in 2022. (Chatting with him, he also confirmed Horizon was the groundbreaking rollercoaster technology coming to Towers that he referred to in that famous Q&A session.) 

John also slipped up and referred to Project Horizon as "SW9" in an interview with Lift Hills & Thrills. 



(He absolutely approved of my hoodie, I never asked him, he never mentioned it, but you just know he did 😉 )

2 years in a row for a high capex project at towers is strange, but it's been a strange 11 years since Smiler opening in 2013. The Smiler incident, then Covid and now the economic crisis have changed things massively. We've seen the Duel refit and Sub Terra this year, that level of investment alongside a big coaster build / retrack is also weird. Having said that Nemesis retrack is not an SW project either, despite the excitement around it, it's essentially just overdue upkeep and maintenance. SW9 was due this year, we have always gotten a secret weapon at least every 5 years. Obviously Covid pushed that back. 

My understanding is that the only reason Horizon hasn't started already is because they're waiting on the archeological survey, and the green light from that. 

My feelings are that Merlin recognise the desperate need for capacity at Towers, bought in the retro squad as a temporary measure, whilst they planned / moved forward / bought back all of these investments we're seeing now. 

You could well be right about the flats though, that's all still a bit of a 'he said she said.' I only have the word of people I trust on that, and no personal knowledge or solid information. Even the source of the original information has no solid info on dates. 

On your last point, you're absolutely right. The major projects, Horizon, and the retrack at least, would have been in the pipeline for years. As I mentioned above, I actually believe they've been delayed! However, covid led to massive capacity issues at Towers, which is why the retro squad was brought in in the first place. Those capacity issues initially centred around distancing and extra cleaning on rides etc, but quickly shifted to good old fashioned 'too many visitors in the park' due to revenge tourism. It's possible that some of these smaller projects, Sub Terra, new flats, etc, have been planned in the last 3 years to add capacity to the park and negate the need to rent crappy little fair rides every season.

I fully expect Hex to be operating next year. (Who knows, maybe a Vekoma Madhouse is one of the flats purchased, nobody said they had to be new concepts, just new hardware.) 

Gonna assume from this, and the follow up post, that theme park forums are even nerdier (in a good way!) than festival forums

[squirrelarmy]

19 hours ago, balti-pie said:

Its all barrel-aged imperial stouts and trained therapy squirrels now tbf 

 

(i would absolutely keep a therapy squirrel if i could get one, without a doubt) 

Are you needing some therapy?

I can sit and listen to your problems over a pint. 

[balti-pie]

40 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Are you needing some therapy?

I can sit and listen to your problems over a pint. 

you bring the squirrels, i'll bring the pies!