The Smiths (and listening to bands with members you now despise)

[fred quimby]

6 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Neither good or bad, just strange when compared to the other acts that year.

Aye  I see. Yes , see what you are saying. Testing the waters I reckon, moving in a direction at a measured pace I guess. 

Dance music was another I reckon. Orbital 94 or even Orb 93

Then of course Jay Z .

They seem clever at doing it

[lazyred]

54 minutes ago, jparx said:

Haha no doubt some absolute zingers in there. Lyrically he’s one of the greatest of all time and he had that amazing talent for so perfectly articulating what so many are/were feeling. Arguably their music is more relevant now than ever. I need to work on separating the douche bag from the art.

Love the smiths and morriseys solo work. But at the time of release I thought bengali in platforms was dodgy. National front disco can be taken as a lament for someone attracted by fascism but live it was the England for the English line that was emphasised. It felt wrong then and now theres no benefit of doubt. I still listen to the songs but not sure I would see him live again

[clarkete]

3 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Love the smiths and morriseys solo work. But at the time of release I thought bengali in platforms was dodgy. National front disco can be taken as a lament for someone attracted by fascism but live it was the England for the English line that was emphasised. It felt wrong then and now theres no benefit of doubt. I still listen to the songs but not sure I would see him live again

You're right.  His art is not as separate from his obnoxious views as some have suggested... 

I used to love their stuff and plenty of his solo stuff, but long since deleted it from playlists - wouldn't want the pr**k profiting. 

https://freedomnews.org.uk/2019/08/04/morrissey-isnt-senile-hes-always-been-a-racist/

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by clarkete

[jparx]

17 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Love the smiths and morriseys solo work. But at the time of release I thought bengali in platforms was dodgy. National front disco can be taken as a lament for someone attracted by fascism but live it was the England for the English line that was emphasised. It felt wrong then and now theres no benefit of doubt. I still listen to the songs but not sure I would see him live again

Oh yeah agreed on those examples, but it’s his solo stuff where those views come through more isn’t it? Without combing through line by line through The Smiths’ back catalogue, nothing immediately stands out as “ah, there’s the early evidence”

[moogster]

I'm quite torn about an artist most of you won't know. In the 90s, French band Noir Desir was THE band. Best.Thing.Ever. (You tube Tostaky Dies Irae if curious, you can see how that would appeal to the dark and stormy French youth)

He spent 8 years in jailed...

Then came back, tried to do some music. The moment he was booked at a French festival just raised hell and he had to pull out.

So for me, I still love the music. It doesn't sound right to give him more cash, but in a way... I don't know... He paid for it. Enough or not, the opinion varies.

But I just can't take it off my playlists.

[Troop Dogg]

I've not been able to listen to a single Ryan Adams song since all the allegations came out about him. Such a shame, his music is amazing, but he is clearly not a nice person.

[Ryan1984]

5 minutes ago, Troop Dogg said:

I've not been able to listen to a single Ryan Adams song since all the allegations came out about him. Such a shame, his music is amazing, but he is clearly not a nice person.

Same here. Was such a huge fan of him and his Royal Albert Hall show was incredible. Since the allegations about his behaviour? Haven’t listened to a single note.

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, Ryan1984 said:

Same here. Was such a huge fan of him and his Royal Albert Hall show was incredible. Since the allegations about his behaviour? Haven’t listened to a single note.

Yep, me neither. Heartbreaker was one of my all time favourite albums, but just can’t listen to him anymore.

[Mark E. Spliff]

Fuck me - it must be a nightmare making your decisions on whether you find something enjoyable based on other aspects of the creator's life.  You'd have no time to post pointless photos of your meal on Instagram as you'd be too busy Googling the chef's back-story to find out if you're enjoying it.  If you're in this category, then I've got one word for you: Quakers.  Porridge isn't the most exciting meal you'll ever eat, and Quaker hip hop hasn't quite caught on yet, but you can be reasonably confident that you won't be reading about their depraved shiny buckled shoe antics in The Sun and realising you didn't like these things after all.

[balti-pie]

27 minutes ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Fuck me - it must be a nightmare making your decisions on whether you find something enjoyable based on other aspects of the creator's life.  You'd have no time to post pointless photos of your meal on Instagram as you'd be too busy Googling the chef's back-story to find out if you're enjoying it.  If you're in this category, then I've got one word for you: Quakers.  Porridge isn't the most exciting meal you'll ever eat, and Quaker hip hop hasn't quite caught on yet, but you can be reasonably confident that you won't be reading about their depraved shiny buckled shoe antics in The Sun and realising you didn't like these things after all.

Big Lostprophets fan eh? 🤣

[Hugh Jass II]

I still listen to The Smiths, Morrissey is an utter tool but I can still appreciate how great a band they were in their day. I wouldn’t pay money to see him at his own shows these days or see him at a festival if he was on.

I don’t listen to Michael Jackson anymore, choose not to.

[Mark E. Spliff]

13 minutes ago, balti-pie said:

Big Lostprophets fan eh? 🤣

Not into that sort of metal and I genuinely don't know which of the bands I'm into have sex offenders in them - but I'm sure some of them will have: law of averages and all that.  But if I start falsely telling the world that I never liked a band's music because of what their band member did, then I'm either a coward or someone with something to hide.  It's the time-honoured "if I shout louder that she's a witch than the rest of the mob, then they won't think I'm a witch" tactic.

[MrZigster]

It's not Michael Jackson's music I'm appreciating. It's Quincy Jones' state of the art production.

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Not into that sort of metal and I genuinely don't know which of the bands I'm into have sex offenders in them - but I'm sure some of them will have: law of averages and all that.  But if I start falsely telling the world that I never liked a band's music because of what their band member did, then I'm either a coward or someone with something to hide.  It's the time-honoured "if I shout louder that she's a witch than the rest of the mob, then they won't think I'm a witch" tactic.

Eh?  There's a lot there which simply doesn't compute.  

Who is saying that that they never liked a band's music?

Plus the other weird gaslighting aspect you've suggested about being a coward or having something to hide for deciding they no longer want to listen to an artist.

If a performer has revealed that they're a **** in one way or another, then it's fair enough that someone can choose to do what they want and listen or not - indeed it's the purpose of this thread isn't it?

[Mark E. Spliff]

12 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Eh?  There's a lot there which simply doesn't compute.  

Who is saying that that they never liked a band's music?

Plus the other weird gaslighting aspect you've suggested about being a coward or having something to hide for deciding they no longer want to listen to an artist.

If a performer has revealed that they're a **** in one way or another, then it's fair enough that someone can choose to do what they want and listen or not - indeed it's the purpose of this thread isn't it?

I'm sure you've got some good points to make here, so sleep it off and try again tomorrow.

[Zoo Music Girl]

I have this issue with Marilyn Manson. Not someone I've listened to for years now (mainly because the music stopped being to my taste and the band are way past their best) but he was hugely significant in my life for a few years there. My best friend has now passed away and it makes me sad that a lot of my memories of enjoying them with her are somewhat tainted by the fact he is an abusive arsehole. Mind you, you could probably have seen that a mile off back then and we chose to overlook it.

Doesn't come up hugely because I don't listen to them now anyway. It's more that thinking about him gives me a bit of an icky feeling.

The Smiths are a bit different because I do still enjoy them. I do see to be able to separate Moz from their work somehow.

I have a friend who is to the left politically, not remotely prejudiced and extremely lovely who is still a huge Morrissey fan. That I find hard to square. He's going to see him on his next tour. I don't really get how he gets past it.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Zoo Music Girl

[ian the worm]

I occasionally DJ local parties and said I’d avoid Jacko following that film. 

2 hours later and I failed. 

As MrZigster says above, it’s Quincy Jones innit. 

[justanotheronethen]

I think it's more of an issue in this era where social media dictates appearance as acceptance, it leaves little room for intelligent debate - keep scrolling, there'll be something to agree with shortly.

Maiden, Pantera, Queen, Ice Cube, Sleaford Mods, Public Enemy - all artists I'll gladly listen to and pay to see live, but whose frontmen / drummers have all aired opinions I disagree with. I'm stable enough with my own opinions to not be swayed by theirs, even when it's hinted at in their lyrics.

Kiedis though, he's been dropping hints about his wrongness for 30 years now

 

[efcfanwirral]

Well I think we've found one of the positives about Spotify's payment structure (and the others)..anyone who's morally against an artist and doesn't want to line their pockets can continue to stream them safe in the knowledge that those pockets will not be lined very much at all...

How does it work with bands for people? Like if you're not listening to The Smiths even if you like their music because of actions after the band split up, what about the rest of the band? In non extreme cases is it just their own fault for getting involved with someone like that? 

[danmarks]

An argument that will always be around. Almost like a sliding scale of whats ok in direct proportion to how much you like the bands.

Beatles/ lennon - wife beater , possibly a killer

Stones- definitely under age sex and obviously bill wyman and mandy smith.

Led zeppelin- jimmy pages 13 year old girlfriend 

Roy harper - lists of girls under 15 he slept with

John martyn- wife beater / family violence

Marvin gaye - wife beater

Etc

Separating the art from the artist is a personal thing and we all have our own interpretation of what is acceptable.

This has always been the case but with the internet and the cancel culture peope are becoming insular on what they think for fear of being told theyre wrong (just my opinion obviously).

[stuartbert two hats]

10 hours ago, MrZigster said:

It's not Michael Jackson's music I'm appreciating. It's Quincy Jones' state of the art production.

Bad is still a pretty good album though.

[stuartbert two hats]

9 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

I'm sure you've got some good points to make here, so sleep it off and try again tomorrow.

Maybe re-read them this morning and you'll understand what was written. 

[Skip997]

59 minutes ago, justanotheronethen said:

Maiden, Pantera, Queen, Ice Cube, Sleaford Mods, Public Enemy - all artists I'll gladly listen to and pay to see live, but whose frontmen / drummers have all aired opinions I disagree with.

Am interested in what the bolded artists have said that you disagree with?

[danbailey80]

If you follow Ryan Adam’s instagram it’s been an a document of his complete breakdown and gradual recovery. 

he deleted all of the very real vids of him at his worst. He’s been sober a few months now. 

I do believe everyone should have a chance at redeeming themselves (depending on the crime/ accusation) and I do listen to his music now. TBH it was pretty clear he was a very difficult human being before the NYT article. 

i completely understand anyone who chooses not to listen to his music but I am choosing to. 

my general feeling is there is a lot worse out there (I’m not condoning it) and he’s clearly suffered from the accusations and I am able to separate the man from music. 

 

[balthazarstarbuck]

17 hours ago, BumJuice said:

. Rock n Roll 1 & 2,

Go to any sports stadium in the US and they play it. Like he’s never been guilty of anything.

17 hours ago, lazyred said:

Love the smiths and morriseys solo work. But at the time of release I thought bengali in platforms was dodgy. National front disco can be taken as a lament for someone attracted by fascism but live it was the England for the English line that was emphasised. It felt wrong then and now theres no benefit of doubt. I still listen to the songs but not sure I would see him live again

Oh the signs were there. Coming on at Finsbury Park with a Union Jack etc. Having a massive hissy fit when the NME called him a racist.

I’m conflicted. Unusually I prefer his solo stuff to his Smiths stuff. Your Arsenal is one of my favourite albums (though at least I’ve got a copy on vinyl, so my decision to play it won’t affect his royalties). I try to have the stance of what person they are shouldn’t affect the work they do (and vice versa), but that obviously becomes a lot harder with the Glitters and Watkins of the world.