The Smiths (and listening to bands with members you now despise)

[FloorFiller]

11 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Everyone is entitled to their views. and like it or not everyone has a platform these days to share them, whether that's on stage in front of thousands or the average bloke having a rant on Twitter.

Always makes me laugh whenever a celebrity or sports person shares an opinion and the responses are always "just stick to football/music/acting" as if they aren't entitled to their opinions. Nobody ever tells a plumber to stick to unblocking toilets for instance.

Yeah I like knowing which famous people are actually just openly knobheads and/or have awful opinions (or vice versa). Maybe it’ll sometimes sway me towards avoiding their output, but it’s always nice to find out that the celeb you’ve always had a distaste for for whatever reason is in fact a prick and you didn’t just dislike them for no reason. Sucks when it’s the other way round… but I’ve found that’s not the case more often than not. Gained a lot of respect for certain musicians, actors etc from seeing their Twitter feeds. The four years of Trump were especially good for separating the good from the bad in that respect.

[uscore]

 

I think it's fine to identify more with musicians and actors etc who voice opinions you like.  In my experience it's often those who hold terrible (imo) opinions that are more likely to want famous people to shut up.  Possibly because they don't like being reminded they hold terrible opinions.

[jparx]

1 hour ago, FloorFiller said:

I don’t think this is anything that would ever cross their minds. They had a brief time at the top but aren’t exactly heralded as a legendary band in their genre or anything so I doubt it’d sell well, and I’m sure the other band members would rather just leave it all in the past now, especially with all the lyrics written by Watkins. It sucks that their income got totally fucked by what he did, but I’m sure they wouldn’t want to make any more money from anything he had anything to do with. 

Fair enough!

[gizmoman]

16 hours ago, Mardy said:

Maybe, but it felt pretty 'fuck you'. The bit that makes me sad is I loved their music, but now have no desire to listen to it. Even if I got a refund or sold that record for silly money (like it going for now), I've lost a small bit of beauty from my life. I dunno. I thought that they might not be such lying, greedy money grabbing types. But I was wrong. And once you know that, it's pretty dispiriting

Really think you need to step back and reconsider your reaction to this, I know you think you were conned, but small bands like this are not making loads of money, most are barely making a living and selling ltd. edition pressings will help keep them going, yes they may have over-hyped it but the fact is you could now sell it at a profit so you haven't lost out, the music business has always been less than honest with punters, if you're that sensitive I'd suggest never going to a "farewell tour" by any artist!

[Skip997]

43 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

 if you're that sensitive I'd suggest never going to a "farewell tour" by any artist!

This.

I saw the Beat play their "last ever gig" in about 1984, have seen them around a dozen times since.

[Dales]

9 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Everyone is entitled to their views. and like it or not everyone has a platform these days to share them, whether that's on stage in front of thousands or the average bloke having a rant on Twitter.

Always makes me laugh whenever a celebrity or sports person shares an opinion and the responses are always "just stick to football/music/acting" as if they aren't entitled to their opinions. Nobody ever tells a plumber to stick to unblocking toilets for instance.

Indeed everyone is but it's a liberty to expect some one else to pay for the privilige to be preached at. When I pay to buy a ticket to a concert its with the expectation to listen to music and not have a lecture preached at me. It would be the same if I went to a lecture, I would not expect half the night to be the speaker singing karaoke. To me it just seems wrong to use live performances to push your views on others.

If I went to an "evening with format" then yeah all bets off they will talk, share views etc and you know what you are in for.

Anyway musicians etc over sharing is a bug bear of mine. I dont know or need to know or even care about their views but if others do that's their prerogative. Yep, I am one of those who think they should stick to what they are good at. When I have booked a plumber they should stick to unblocking the bog. I am not paying £80 an hour to hear theirs views on the hammers new winger. Just get that arm down that dirty pipe and keep your views on football to yourself. When, I am not paying for a product/service people can do and say what ever they want.

What annoys me about a lost of "celebrity views"it involves telling people what they should do while at the same timeacting in the opposite way. i.e telling people to donate to good causes while at the same time paying accountants/legal teams to avoid paying tax.

But the important thing to remember in this thread is that Morrissey it one of the greatest song writers the country has ever some produced. Anyone who does not agree is wrong.

It's just a bit of a shame that many will never know how good his work is and for a lot of people he will just be known as that racist indie fella that old bald men with Smiths T-Shirts like. 

[Skip997]

4 minutes ago, Dales said:

But the important thing to remember in this thread is that Morrissey it one of the greatest song writers the country has ever some produced. Anyone who does not agree is wrong.

It's just a bit of a shame that many will never know how good his work is and for a lot of people he will just be known as that racist indie fella that old bald men with Smiths T-Shirts like. 

I don't mind being wrong.

Genuinely never liked the Smiths, although Johnny Marr is a very good guitarist.

Morrissey was always a wrong-un, it was clear all along.

[efcfanwirral]

7 hours ago, gizmoman said:

 if you're that sensitive I'd suggest never going to a "farewell tour" by any artist!

Haha a few of us went to The Enemy's farewell tour in 2016 (baffling as it was considering even as fans we could see the way the music industry was going, they were behaving like it was a good 10 years before splitting up over creative differences!), and all who went were well up for this year's run of shows with no bad feeling 

[gizmoman]

26 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Haha a few of us went to The Enemy's farewell tour in 2016 (baffling as it was considering even as fans we could see the way the music industry was going, they were behaving like it was a good 10 years before splitting up over creative differences!), and all who went were well up for this year's run of shows with no bad feeling 

Thing is, as music fans we are used to these kind of promotional tricks, that's why I'm surprised at Mardy's reaction, you would have to be pretty young or naive to think a band wouldn't release a new album of music on other formats (and I suspect Mardy's not that young!) It's a pity if it has spoiled it for him, he's missing out on a band he clearly liked, and if you really want to criticise the greedy in the music biz it would be better to start with the likes of The Eagles and Springsteen (to name only two). They don't need the money whereas I suspect smaller bands do.

[Superscally]

On 8/6/2022 at 12:34 PM, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

There are different types of oddities, allegations, political opinions, and crimes, I guess. And it all comes down to your own personal compass.

Misconduct vs crimes vs personal/political opinion. 

The biggest example of misconduct is probably Michael Jackson. Without a doubt, he took advantage of children during his life, and to hang out with the guy, you'd probably think he was a total fruitloop. But his music is unquestionably fantastic. There were only ever allegations though and nothing was proven, despite all the rumours of his Jesus Juice etc, so for me, I can still whack on MJ and focus on his great back catalogue.

Proven allegations/heinous crime is a bit different. Any proven heinous crime like the bloke from the Lost Prophets - which is just so utterly abhorrent and disgusting, or Gary Glitter. Neither of those will ever be turned on in this house. The nature of their crimes mean they should never get any radio play in the future anywhere.

Petty crimes like cannabis etc, shouldn't really bother anyone too much.

Which brings me on to politics/personal opinion. The thing with that is, it works both ways. There are plenty of artists who have said weird stuff - on both ends of the spectrum, and it would be folly of me to turn their music off just because they had an opinion about politics.

Not that I know Morrissey's entire political opinion. But it's just that, an opinion. There's left-wing groups like Run the Jewels who talk about race politics and use the term white as a pejorative, but I still find their music awesome. I'm sure they're not really advocating prison riots and cutting off everyone's dicks, even if they are generally Left-wing in their political opinions. They might believe in white privelege and that there's an overarching system of white power - both of which I disagree with, but I wouldn't let it get in my way of enjoying their beats and tunes.

Obviously, there are extremes to political opinion. If the Foo Fighters released a song holding the Nazi ideology up as an ideal, obv I wouldn't listen. But then their careers would nosedive as a result - which is why no one actually would do that.

You do know that they're named after US military slang for Nazi UFO's right?? There's no Foo without fire... 😉

[Superscally]

On 8/6/2022 at 10:30 PM, jparx said:

Yeah there’s a definite line between someone being a complete tool and someone being stomach churning. Morrissey doesn’t repulse me in the same way as a Ryan Adams type, and obviously nowhere near an Ian Watkins. 

I guess the thing with The Smiths is being young and naive, you resonate with those lyrics and by extension feel as though you resonate with the artist. I suppose that’s where my ex girlfriend analogy comes in to it. You almost feel betrayed when that person doesn’t turn out to be who you thought they were and those memories end up sour. Perils of hero worship, and ending up more jaded as a result.

Interesting use of the word repulse there with Ryan - was a massive fan, heard about the shit. Not too sure about the veracity of the Mandy Moore testimony tbf, but the rest put me right off. Since then I've heard about how fucked up he was generally on all kinds (didn't change my overall barometer). Since THEN I've heard about what he's done to sort himself out, after initially stating he didn't need to and yeah, I've given him a second chance. Don't think I'd ever obsess about him again, can't honestly see me buying a ticket, but I'd see him at a festival. Certainly listening to his new stuff and it's good. 

With Morrissey, Roger Waters etc, I'd never listen to any of their new stuff as I find their political views more likely to be the real "measure of the man", than the behaviour of a possibly temporarily damaged person. 

[wro_lap]

On 8/7/2022 at 11:08 PM, stuartbert two hats said:

What's she done?

https://www.insider.com/lana-del-rey-problematic-backlash-timeline-2021-1

Take this with as much of a pinch of salt as you'd like, of course. Plenty of public figures just love to fool around in a controversial way, and that might well be what's happening here. I'm not really sure.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

8 hours ago, Superscally said:

You do know that they're named after US military slang for Nazi UFO's right?? There's no Foo without fire... 😉

Haha, yeah, I did know that. I'm happy that someone picked up on it 😄

[Superscally]

16 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Haha, yeah, I did know that. I'm happy that someone picked up on it 😄

I nicked that last quote from the UFO museum in Roswell!! 😃

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

42 minutes ago, Superscally said:

I nicked that last quote from the UFO museum in Roswell!! 😃

That's certainly one place I would like to visit!

[Superscally]

Just now, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

That's certainly one place I would like to visit!

It's very cool. Quite hilarious in places. The story about the speeder getting pulled by the cops was a good one...

[clarkete]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:24 PM, Dales said:

It is odd how almost the entire world has made the decision to ignore the allegations about Michael Jackson and still play and listen to his music.

Have they? 

I couldn't tell you the last time I heard anyone on TV or radio play anything by him, a long time especially given his massive sales previously. 

[stuartbert two hats]

9 hours ago, clarkete said:

Have they? 

I couldn't tell you the last time I heard anyone on TV or radio play anything by him, a long time especially given his massive sales previously. 

Spotify says 31 million monthly listens, which is more than The Beatles on 26M, so he's still getting played.

[clarkete]

18 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Spotify says 31 million monthly listens, which is more than The Beatles on 26M, so he's still getting played.

Wow do they? 

Ironically I had ditched Spotify for tidal for a couple of reasons, but not least that the ceo seemed to be a nob. 

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/11/10/daniel-ek-helsing-investment/

[stuartbert two hats]

22 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Wow do they? 

Ironically I had ditched Spotify for tidal for a couple of reasons, but not least that the ceo seemed to be a nob. 

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/11/10/daniel-ek-helsing-investment/

I really should dump it for a service that pays the artists more.

Edited August 10, 2022 by stuartbert two hats

[Quark]

36 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I really should dump it for a service that pays the artists more.

So interestingly I asked this question of Public Service Broadcasting, whether the higher (but still ostensibly low) rates on other services actually make a difference to the artists:

 

[maelzoid]

12 hours ago, clarkete said:

Have they? 

I couldn't tell you the last time I heard anyone on TV or radio play anything by him, a long time especially given his massive sales previously. 

He's still on the radio loads. Tune in to any 80s station.

I will still listen to his records at home, they are great, but personally think he should not be played on the radio.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 hours ago, Quark said:

So interestingly I asked this question of Public Service Broadcasting, whether the higher (but still ostensibly low) rates on other services actually make a difference to the artists:

 

Oh, that was you?  I remember reading that reply.

EDIT: It's basically your question that made me decide to switch streamers.

Edited August 10, 2022 by stuartbert two hats

[clarkete]

3 hours ago, maelzoid said:

He's still on the radio loads. Tune in to any 80s station.

Ah, once I got past my twenties and thirties I realised I was in danger of being one of those folks who only ever listens to music from their heyday and that was one of the factors in me switching to 6music, so I try to avoid anything too focused on a particular decade. I do know they have their tributes such as the recent ones to 80s,90s etc, but for the most part the mix of old and new suits me and they never play MJ. 

There's always a selection of new stuff passing by my ears without me having to make too much effort plus that helped of course when I went to the next Glastonbury as I may have actually heard of some bands (plus the BSR playlist obviously). 

[Dales]

17 hours ago, clarkete said:

Have they? 

I couldn't tell you the last time I heard anyone on TV or radio play anything by him, a long time especially given his massive sales previously. 

I guess it might also be down to where you live. I am from East London and still hear plenty of his stuff out and about. Also seems to get plenty of radio air play and is the main stay of most in house hotel entertainment teams. The Michael Jackson night is up there with the Grease night for many a hotel in-house nights all over the world.