Arcardia at the blood world cup

[zahidf]

12 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Yeah, they're def throwing in Glasto's name to give the event some kudos. 

Altho, could it be argued that to change people's opinions, you first have to win people over to your culture? I'm not sure where I stand on it, but if you want to open up Qatar to Western liberalism, the best way would be through things like this?

Just a thought, don't have a go if you disagree, I'm just spitballing 🙂

Like most stuff there though, itll be the expats and tourists who will be going, not the locals

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

1 minute ago, scatteredscreens said:

I get what you're trying to say. But I don't think a fire spitting metal spider is gonna open up any doors for Western Liberalism.

Well, not literally Arcadia, but a big festival with drinking, women not wearing hijabs and dancing, men and women who aren't married dancing together... might convince a few people that things on the other side of the fence ain't too bad. 

It's not the spider itself, obv.

[incident]

2 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Yeah, they're def throwing in Glasto's name to give the event some kudos. 

Altho, could it be argued that to change people's opinions, you first have to win people over to your culture? I'm not sure where I stand on it, but if you want to open up Qatar to Western liberalism, the best way would be through things like this?

Just a thought, don't have a go if you disagree, I'm just spitballing 🙂

The objection isn't simply "Qatar aren't nice people" though.

Even if you ignore the parts of the regime where you could arguably look to inspire change - the persecution of LGBTQ+ people or even supporters, the fundamental misogyny, etc - this event specifically is tainted beyond repair. Nobody knows how many migrant workers have died building these stadiums (that'll largely be unused or even removed entirely after the tournament), but Amnesty believe it's a high four digit number. These are workers who've been attracted into their country with a promise of good wages, and then when they arrive have had their passports confiscated and effectively forced to work long hours for a pittance of a salary. They've not been able to either leave the country or seek work elsewhere without being arrested. That's near enough slavery for my taste.

Basically - while I understand (though not really agree with) the sentiment, it can't apply here. This event has taken things way beyond the "regular" human rights issues associated with Qatar.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Like most stuff there though, itll be the expats and tourists who will be going, not the locals

Yeah, that's the downside I thought of as well. It's a tourist event for tourists, although perhaps the few Qataris who go might think differently after?

It's like when people go to Glastonbury and see all the Greenpeace/WaterAid stuff for the first time and it gets them thinking. I'm sure there won't be any placards allowed supporting human rights etc, but being there enough might help turn a few heads and start the grains of sand tumbling...

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

5 minutes ago, incident said:

The objection isn't simply "Qatar aren't nice people" though.

Even if you ignore the parts of the regime where you could arguably look to inspire change - the persecution of LGBTQ+ people or even supporters, the fundamental misogyny, etc - this event specifically is tainted beyond repair. Nobody knows how many migrant workers have died building these stadiums (that'll largely be unused or even removed entirely after the tournament), but Amnesty believe it's a high four digit number. These are workers who've been attracted into their country with a promise of good wages, and then when they arrive have had their passports confiscated and effectively forced to work long hours for a pittance of a salary. They've not been able to either leave the country or seek work elsewhere without being arrested. That's near enough slavery for my taste.

Basically - while I understand (though not really agree with) the sentiment, it can't apply here. This event has taken things way beyond the "regular" human rights issues associated with Qatar.

Sure, I know all about the human rights abuse in Qatar. It's been well-reported on. But how else are things going to change unless things open up? If there are LGBT people at the event, they get seen, perhaps locals see it and realise it's not that bad, maybe things start slowly changing in the background, is all I'm saying.

 

EDIT: Obv, it could also go the other way. People might see the drunken sweaty mess of a hundred thousand people enjoying hedonism, and it might encourage people to hold stronger on to their political views...

Edited September 20, 2022 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON

[Sawdusty surfer]

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/03/qatar-world-cup-of-shame/

[Neil]

2 hours ago, scatteredscreens said:

I get what you're trying to say. But I don't think a fire spitting metal spider is gonna open up any doors for Western Liberalism.

that tweet up there ^ throws in glasto's name, which is something different (to what was said above, that i started arguing against)

[p.pete]

2 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Yeah, they're def throwing in Glasto's name to give the event some kudos. 

Altho, could it be argued that to change people's opinions, you first have to win people over to your culture? I'm not sure where I stand on it, but if you want to open up Qatar to Western liberalism, the best way would be through things like this?

Just a thought, don't have a go if you disagree, I'm just spitballing 🙂

Why does anyone need to be won over to some other culture - the ideas of travel, broadening the mind and experiencing different cultures and ideas are all great.  Parts of one culture might be more appealing, and maybe gets adopted over time, or maybe it's just nice to experience but I don't really get the idea of winning over.  Nice ideas of what travel can be, but sadly the reality is we discover somewhere new and interesting, a few people go, then many people go, and then that original place all of a sudden doesn't exist any more.

Is it good to open Qatar up to western liberalism?  No idea;  do the people of Qatar want that? no idea.  If Qatar becomes less like Qatar and more like the West will more people go there - probably.  Great if you run things and want more money, terrible if you're a local trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.

[Gnomicide]

I wonder if Glastonbury will ask to have their name removed from that poster? The right love to call hypocrisy on Glastonbury at every opportunity, although it only says "straight from Glastonbury" it ties them to the event, not a good look. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

2 hours ago, p.pete said:

Why does anyone need to be won over to some other culture - the ideas of travel, broadening the mind and experiencing different cultures and ideas are all great.  Parts of one culture might be more appealing, and maybe gets adopted over time, or maybe it's just nice to experience but I don't really get the idea of winning over.  Nice ideas of what travel can be, but sadly the reality is we discover somewhere new and interesting, a few people go, then many people go, and then that original place all of a sudden doesn't exist any more.

Is it good to open Qatar up to western liberalism?  No idea;  do the people of Qatar want that? no idea.  If Qatar becomes less like Qatar and more like the West will more people go there - probably.  Great if you run things and want more money, terrible if you're a local trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.

For the purpose of human rights and avoiding countries like Qatar from killing another 7k people for shiny new stadia?

The rest of your post is just waffle, frankly. Almost like you're defending Qatar's actions as just being part of their culture.

Edited September 20, 2022 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON

[p.pete]

22 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

For the purpose of human rights and avoiding countries like Qatar from killing another 7k people for shiny new stadia?

The rest of your post is just waffle, frankly. Almost like you're defending Qatar's actions as just being part of their culture.

😄 probably coming at your post from the wrong perspective - and absolutely probably was a load of waffle.

I was (probably ineloquently) trying to think about who's going to be benefiting from the wonderful cultural exchange that is the world cup.  We have no interest in their culture and presumably the average Qatari has little interest in ours - only the richest of them will likely see inside a fan park where Westerners will congregate with their wonderful beer.  Nobody walks away from this with enhanced cultural perspectives.

By deciding (accepting the money) to have a wc there we've effectively given them a green light to human rights abuses and shown very little interest in scrutiny of their methods delivering the show.  I wonder which side is having the greater gains in inflicting their way of life on the other?  We're effectively legitimising how they conduct themselves, and as we know from previous olympics and world cups bugger-all gets left behind that enhances the lot of locals.

 

[Neil]

33 minutes ago, p.pete said:

By deciding (accepting the money) to have a wc there

problem for FIFA is that western democracies, are becoming less willing to accept FIFA's conditions for hosting, cos FIFA want a lot of control.

[Jay Pee]

I worked in Doha years ago.  We used to take downtime at one of the posh Western Hotel Chains drinking beers in the pool bar reading the local newspapers about some local fella who had just got ten lashes on one of the main public roundabouts for being caught with alcohol.

I am glad I developed a conscience but wish it had come sooner.

This World Cup Sucks Monumental Arse.  

[giantkatestacks]

I am really disappointed in Arcadia here.

[Skip997]

11 minutes ago, Jay Pee said:

This World Cup Sucks Monumental Arse.  

 

2 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

I am really disappointed in Arcadia here.

I genuinely can't believe what Arcadia are doing, it's so against what I thought their beliefs and ethos were.

It just goes to show how money corrupts, or how wrong I was or both.

Sent them an email expressing my disgust, unsurprisingly no response.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

2 hours ago, p.pete said:

😄 probably coming at your post from the wrong perspective - and absolutely probably was a load of waffle.

I was (probably ineloquently) trying to think about who's going to be benefiting from the wonderful cultural exchange that is the world cup.  We have no interest in their culture and presumably the average Qatari has little interest in ours - only the richest of them will likely see inside a fan park where Westerners will congregate with their wonderful beer.  Nobody walks away from this with enhanced cultural perspectives.

By deciding (accepting the money) to have a wc there we've effectively given them a green light to human rights abuses and shown very little interest in scrutiny of their methods delivering the show.  I wonder which side is having the greater gains in inflicting their way of life on the other?  We're effectively legitimising how they conduct themselves, and as we know from previous olympics and world cups bugger-all gets left behind that enhances the lot of locals.

 

Haha, it's all good, I was a bit curt in my last post too, was a bit tired after a long day at work.

The thing is, were these kind of horrendous acts happening in Qatar before the WC? Absolutely, yes. Did anyone care before the WC went there? I don't think so, apart from orgs like Human Rights Watch. So, if there's any glimmer of hope, at least with the eyes of the world on Qatar, will things change a little bit for the better in the future as more scrutiny and tourists/teams do their own little protests. It might happen. 

Perhaps I'm just a foolish idealist/optimist 😋

[t0paz]

I was kind of hoping this was fake or some kind of mistake, but no, it’s on Arcadia’s website too

https://www.arcadiaspectacular.com/events

It’ll be interesting to see what they have to say for themselves. Assuming they say anything that is

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

16 hours ago, Skip997 said:

 

I genuinely can't believe what Arcadia are doing, it's so against what I thought their beliefs and ethos were.

It just goes to show how money corrupts, or how wrong I was or both.

Sent them an email expressing my disgust, unsurprisingly no response.

Did you get any answer from them yet?

I've tweeted them, but no reply either 

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Did you get any answer from them yet?

I've tweeted them, but no reply either 

No reply yet.

[Stokesy10]

It'll all be OK because Harry Kane's gonna be wearing a colourful captains armband tomorrow, to take a stand against human rights issues. Problem solved.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Stokesy10

[wro_lap]

Well deserved call up for the Spider. A lot of hype around it for a long time. About time it got international honours.

[wro_lap]

That said, I'll be disappointed if a band called "Blood World Cup" isn't playing on the Truth Stage next year

[Suprefan]

Ya'll wanted some worldwide recognition, well there ya go. Maybe they can get some of that oil money to get put into the fest to get better sound for every stage.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Yes, this is exactly what people wanted and you're entitled to gloat about it. Well done.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

1 hour ago, Suprefan said:

Ya'll wanted some worldwide recognition, well there ya go. Maybe they can get some of that oil money to get put into the fest to get better sound for every stage.

That's right.

Now, when's the Spider heading over to Pyongyang to pump out Enlightenment Songs such as 'The Party is My Mother' and 'Footsteps'?

Edited September 23, 2022 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON