Headliners 2023

[BenG92]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

But … and I’m not knocking the reliable poster by any means and it looks like very credible info both on what we have so far and the other info given … we know things change and from memory it’s rare we have all headliners locked in at this stage 

Indeed, so far in this year of rumours from legit insiders not paying off I've seen both Green Day and KSI supposedly dropping out of Leeds + Reading, and Pantera dropping out of Download, both before either lineups dropped.

[Florian Saucer Attack]

2 minutes ago, FrancisH said:

But not just all men, all white men to boot. 

I'm not saying Glasto wouldn't go for that trio, and I'm definitely not saying that it would not be a huge set of bookings. I just find it jarring from all the other interviews Emily has given about diversity, about booking specifically female headliners, and that she's now an ambassador of keychange.

It just doesn't sit right to me. But we'll see eh! 

you should look at a picture of Slash

[gfa]

29 minutes ago, Sorcha17 said:

They did Reading and Leeds on consecutive days last year.

i'd argue this is a bit different because you can't really do twin festivals without playing two days in a row (well 2/3 headliners have to)

[FrancisH]

12 minutes ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

you should look at a picture of Slash

Cool. So you reckon Guns and Roses are a big win for diversity for festival bookings then?

Edit -  hey maybe they'll even play One in a million, a real anthem for diversity. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by FrancisH

[Gnomicide]

2 minutes ago, FrancisH said:

Cool. So you reckon Guns and Roses are a big win for diversity for festival bookings then?

[BenG92]

17 minutes ago, kingcrawler said:

It was in an interview with Edith Bowman I think. I did listen to it and it was mentioned in a thread on here too but struggling to find it as well.

Cheers, found it - quote is

"Some years where we'll have all male headliners, some years hopefully where you have all female headliners, it's not always gonna be 50/50, but the aim is that you're conscious of that when you're booking"

So aye, I think given a reasonable choice of who's available she'd try to avoid that 

[Florian Saucer Attack]

4 minutes ago, FrancisH said:

Cool. So you reckon Guns and Roses are a big win for diversity for festival bookings then?

What's your criteria? Does there need to be a certain amount of non white people in the band or a percentage of the band as a whole? Do the non white members need to be original members, does the rolling stones' base player count for example? Or should people just come to you and accept your judgement on the issue?

I am for the gender split but I have the same questions. If the Guns n Roses keyboard player does not count then what does qualify an act as being sufficiently female? I've asked this several times and never get a a definitive answer

[FrancisH]

Just now, Florian Saucer Attack said:

What's your criteria? Does there need to be a certain amount of non white people in the band or a percentage of the band as a whole? Do the non white members need to be original members, does the rolling stones' base player count for example? Or should people just come to you and accept your judgement on the issue?

I am for the gender split but I have the same questions. If the Guns n Roses keyboard player does not count then what does qualify an act as being sufficiently female? I've asked this several times and never get a a definitive answer

Maybe it's just me but the criteria seems relatively straightforward - It would be a female lead artist headlining with their own act with their own material, and not a female bandmember who has joined a historically male dominated rock band.

Don't get me wrong it's great they have improved diversity within their own touring lineup, but you must see it's a bit of a mega reach to think Emily would see that as a diverse set of headliners.

[jannybruck]

"Session musician who 99.5% of the audience wouldn't even know the name of" is not a diverse booking and most certainly should not be counted as a female headliner. I know some people are clutching at straws here but.. it's nothing even close to what the festival should be doing in the upper reaches of the Pyramid.

[Florian Saucer Attack]

1 minute ago, FrancisH said:

Maybe it's just me but the criteria seems relatively straightforward - It would be a female lead artist headlining with their own act with their own material, and not a female bandmember who has joined a historically male dominated rock band.

Don't get me wrong it's great they have improved diversity within their own touring lineup, but you must see it's a bit of a mega reach to think Emily would see that as a diverse set of headliners.

I don't know what Emily thinks but it's not the headliners that need to be 50/50 it's the festival as a whole and Glastonbury has not yet fully committed to this.

Why do the acts have to be female lead, this almost always means a female singer who are usually charismatic and are the least likely musicians to need this help.

What if you had a 12 piece jazz act, which is male lead with his own material and the other 11 musicians all happened to be female- by your definition they would not count but wolf alice would who have 3 men in the band would

I am not saying I know the correct answer but once you decide having at least one person in an act that identifies as female is not automatically enough things get complicated very quickly 

[4AssedMonkey]

21 minutes ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

What's your criteria? Does there need to be a certain amount of non white people in the band or a percentage of the band as a whole? Do the non white members need to be original members, does the rolling stones' base player count for example? Or should people just come to you and accept your judgement on the issue?

I am for the gender split but I have the same questions. If the Guns n Roses keyboard player does not count then what does qualify an act as being sufficiently female? I've asked this several times and never get a a definitive answer

I don't think there is a definitive answer as it's not something you can cater for with mathematical computation.  It's one of those things where you have to use judgement.

Let's be honest, when it has balance, we can all feel it.  Billie Eilish/Macca/Kendrick/DiRo feels it.  AM/GNR/Elton/Roxy Music didn't.  By a mile.  I know Roxy dropped out but even if it was AM/GNR/Elton/Annie Lennox (for example) it still doesn't feel it to me.  One of AM/GNR needs to change to balance it up IMO.  All the weak arguments that GNR have a mixed race guitarist and a female session musician on keys don't change that.

[leath02]

So we do realise when Emily spoke about gender split on the bill, she never specified headliners, right? So if the undercard is stacked with ladies, think it's easier to give a good argument as to why the top of the bill isn't split this year

She also gave an interview not long ago saying some years would be three male headliners, some would be three female (perhaps hinting/forewarning of a male dominated top line this year)

So if 2024 is 2 or 3 female acts on that top line (Taylor, Dua +1 ? ), between the two years, it's balanced

Obviously the gender split is very important, but think there's an element here both ignoring the other things that have been said, and also of using it as the basis of an argument to back up the fact people just don't the idea of AM GNR completing our trio

Edited December 22, 2022 by leath02

[Florian Saucer Attack]

1 minute ago, jannybruck said:

"Session musician who 99.5% of the audience wouldn't even know the name of" is not a diverse booking and most certainly should not be counted as a female headliner. I know some people are clutching at straws here but.. it's nothing even close to what the festival should be doing in the upper reaches of the Pyramid.

but if the idea is to give female musicians a leg up, is not helping out session musicians not as important or even more important than charismatic front women who could be (or on their way to) being rich and famous irregardless of festival bookings?

[kingcrawler]

27 minutes ago, BenG92 said:

Cheers, found it - quote is

"Some years where we'll have all male headliners, some years hopefully where you have all female headliners, it's not always gonna be 50/50, but the aim is that you're conscious of that when you're booking"

So aye, I think given a reasonable choice of who's available she'd try to avoid that 

I think so too. To be fair, I don’t think anyone is saying they set out to book these three headliners initially, Taylor Swift was presumably lined up for next year. It seems entirely possible though that once she became unavailable, while unbalanced they might have considered GNR or Elton as the next best options available to them. I certainly wouldn’t have predicted them but given the complete lack of info on any other headliners, as well as a lack of decent alternatives at other festivals, I do think we’ll end up with those three.

[BenG92]

5 minutes ago, leath02 said:

So we do realise when Emily spoke about gender split on the bill, she never specified headliners, right? So if the undercard is stacked with ladies, think it's easier to give a good argument as to why the top of the bill isn't split this year)

She also gave an interview not long ago saying some years would be three male headliners, some would be three female (perhaps hinting/forewarning of a male dominated top line this year)

So if 2024 is 2 or 3 female acts on that top line (Taylor, Dua +1 ? ), between the two years, it's balanced

Obviously the gender split is very important, but think there's an element here both ignoring the other things that have been said, and also of using it as the basis of an argument to back up the fact people just don't the idea of AM GNR completing our trio

Yeah I pulled the quote above, 

"Some years where we'll have all male headliners, some years hopefully where you have all female headliners, it's not always gonna be 50/50, but the aim is that you're conscious of that when you're booking"

I think the latter part makes it pretty clear that they'll at least try depending on who's available. Like I said to someone else, I think if Eavis had a clear cut choice (just as an example) between AM / GNR / Elton or AM / Beyonce / Elton she's going with the latter. If Beyonce and <insert other huge female names> aren't available? Fine, book GNR and try to make 2024 female-heavy

Edited December 22, 2022 by BenG92

[Florian Saucer Attack]

4 minutes ago, 4AssedMonkey said:

I don't think there is a definitive answer as it's not something you can cater for with mathematical computation.  It's one of those things where you have to use judgement.

You are probably right here but that does mean we are all forever doomed to argue about what does and doesn't count as a female act. 

I personally believe it should be as broad as church as possible to help all the female drummers, key boardists, trombone players out there. All the Lizzo's and Megan the Stallions out there don't need as much help

[clasher]

This topic literally has the same 3 conversations over and over again and not much else.

AM are nailed on for friday - but is it friday? - perhaps it's styles - AM are nailed on for friday

GnR are shit - GnR are shit - GnR are shit

It's not gender balanced - it's not about the headliners - but emily said so - except she said the exact opposite - what about that random big female act that hasn't toured in ages and there's no signs she will next year? - it's not gender balanced

Oh, and there's the occasional Peter Kay thing, which is even worse 😂

Edited December 22, 2022 by clasher

[jannybruck]

5 minutes ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

but if the idea is to give female musicians a leg up, is not helping out session musicians not as important or even more important than charismatic front women who could be (or on their way to) being rich and famous irregardless of festival bookings?

No, because women have been part of the session world for decades and it's not really an issue there – plenty of headliners have had session backing singers or backing musicians, but I don't think anyone would count that as anything other than a paying gig rather than a celebration of that person's own personal artistry that audiences want to see.

The point is about having these people front and centre and festivals like Glastonbury (and the general music media landscape) uplifting women and people of colour so they can be headlining on their own terms rather than being relegated to be behind, for example, dinosour rock men like this.

I sort of get your point but they're two very different things.

[BenG92]

Just now, clasher said:

This topic literally has the same 3 conversations over and over again and not much else.

Download forums have been fun, we knew the headliners in June and it was a feedback loop for 5 months

"Metallica aren't doing two sets"

"BMTH shouldn't be headlining"

"Why not SOAD? Why not Ozzy?"

Ad nauseum copium 

[mike46]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

No it's just that it's become pointless because right now nothing will dissuade people from it. And when people suggest, theorise or hint that its something else, people like Matt are quite rude to them.

It's pointless me sharing info as I'll just get "can't be, it's AM on Friday 100%"

And that's fine, you guys can believe all that, it's not a problem, but it just makes the bubble all the more isolated as any dissenting voices are basically told to go away. Outside of this thread and forum opinions differ wildly.

Just to add to this, I did hear something this week which would mean those who’ve locked in AM and GnR as the other two might want to start searching for their keys. It’s from someone who would certainly be in a position to know one of them - but I don’t know this person very well and they might well have just been trying to big themselves up and look more impressive to the group. There should be something happening early Jan (unrelated to Glasto) that would either backup their claims or prove they were having me on… 

 

Either way, I don’t think it’s as set in stone as some people are thinking.  

[clasher]

5 minutes ago, BenG92 said:

Download forums have been fun, we knew the headliners in June and it was a feedback loop for 5 months

"Metallica aren't doing two sets"

"BMTH shouldn't be headlining"

"Why not SOAD? Why not Ozzy?"

Ad nauseum copium 

Haha yeah, but have you thought about how BMTH shouldn't really headline?

[Florian Saucer Attack]

1 minute ago, jannybruck said:

No, because women have been part of the session world for decades and it's not really an issue there – plenty of headliners have had session backing singers or backing musicians, but I don't think anyone would count that as anything other than a paying gig rather than a celebration of that person's own personal artistry that audiences want to see.

The point is about having these people front and centre and festivals like Glastonbury (and the general music media landscape) uplifting women and people of colour so they can be headlining on their own terms rather than being relegated to be behind, for example, dinosour rock men like this.

I sort of get your point but they're two very different things.

This is why without a clear definition we are forever doomed to argue as I see the goal of the gender split concept completely differently than you. 

I see it as much more utilitarian than you, getting female on stages is more important than 'a celebration of that person's own personal artistry' that's too wishy washy for me to try to regulate

There is no shortage of people (female or not) wanting to be the charismatic lead singer but there is an under representation of female drummers. Let's uplift all the women who want to be drummers, the singers don't need help in this way. Plus there is always a lack of good drummers, I don't know if you or anyone you know has tried to start a band but it is always hard to find a good drummer, the more there are the better things will be. 

Also I don't see drummers or keyboardists being any less important than singers as you seem to believe. The coldplay drummer has headlined glastonbury just as much as Chris Martin has

I also resent your snobbish dinosaur rock comment. I've not read or listened to an interview with the Guns N Roses keyboardist but there is a good chance she is now living her dream life playing with one of her favourite bands in her favourite genre. 

I support all the female musicians out there who want to be in bands like ACDC and Guns N Roses. Not everyone wants to be the next Beyonce or Taylor Swift. Which is why I also hate the term 'dadrock'

[Neil]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

No it's just that it's become pointless because right now nothing will dissuade people from it. And when people suggest, theorise or hint that its something else, people like Matt are quite rude to them.

It's pointless me sharing info as I'll just get "can't be, it's AM on Friday 100%"

And that's fine, you guys can believe all that, it's not a problem, but it just makes the bubble all the more isolated as any dissenting voices are basically told to go away. Outside of this thread and forum opinions differ wildly.

if you know something, please say (by pm to me if you like), don't let matt put you off.

[4AssedMonkey]

18 minutes ago, mike46 said:

Just to add to this, I did hear something this week which would mean those who’ve locked in AM and GnR as the other two might want to start searching for their keys. It’s from someone who would certainly be in a position to know one of them - but I don’t know this person very well and they might well have just been trying to big themselves up and look more impressive to the group. There should be something happening early Jan (unrelated to Glasto) that would either backup their claims or prove they were having me on… 

 

Either way, I don’t think it’s as set in stone as some people are thinking.  

You had me at "I did hear something..."

[mike46]

2 minutes ago, 4AssedMonkey said:

You had me at "I did hear something..."

Well we were all sat around the same table so he didn’t write me a letter…