Blur

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, scatteredscreens said:

Bit shit then if you have a bad back AND can't afford golden circle then. Might as well not go?

Yup. Like I said, both systems are shit for different people but also in some cases the same people.

You could have a golden circle picked by lottery but that still has issues. You could do the stupid Springsteen nonsense. There are other systems. None of them are really 100% fair and I completely get that there's an appeal to "first come first served" - I remember queueing up for 6 hours in my 20s to get to the front of the then "last ever" James gig at Wembley. 

You can like the system, you can explain why, for you, it's the fairest of the systems that are viable, it's fine to discuss it. What does my head in is people that can't actually even see the biases and unfairness in their preferred system, and suggest that there's some sort of moral purity to it. And those that disagree are somehow "anti music".

 

[Hugh Jass II]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

This gig is a rip off because even the shit seats are £80. But generally I'd rather a gig be tiered at £100/£70/£40 than £70 for everyone. Whereas people here would rather price out people at the lower end to avoid having tiering at all, and think that's somehow morally "right".

Who has said that? Give examples.

[DeanoL]

Just now, Hugh Jass II said:

Who has said that? Give examples.

You did. You said there shouldn't be a golden circle, and you said you understood how gigs at this level were priced and loved my explanation. 

If you're working to a fixed £X figure for ticket income, the consequence of cutting a premium ticket tier is an increase in prices somewhere else.

[kingbadger]

34 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Defending it on the grounds of “oh thats just how much it is these days” just means people will continue to accept being ripped off.

Assuming these people are more than happy with the energy firms making billions hand over fist whilst paying sky high prices to keep themselves warm this winter 

Edited November 15, 2022 by kingbadger

[scatteredscreens]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Yup. Like I said, both systems are shit for different people but also in some cases the same people.

You could have a golden circle picked by lottery but that still has issues. You could do the stupid Springsteen nonsense. There are other systems. None of them are really 100% fair and I completely get that there's an appeal to "first come first served" - I remember queueing up for 6 hours in my 20s to get to the front of the then "last ever" James gig at Wembley. 

You can like the system, you can explain why, for you, it's the fairest of the systems that are viable, it's fine to discuss it. What does my head in is people that can't actually even see the biases and unfairness in their preferred system, and suggest that there's some sort of moral purity to it. And those that disagree are somehow "anti music".

 

I am with you on the sense of privilege needed to queue for all day. I have an illness that would make it quite challenging for myself. But I also don't think the golden circle pricing is any better for completely different reasons. 

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, scatteredscreens said:

I am with you on the sense of privilege needed to queue for all day. I have an illness that would make it quite challenging for myself. But I also don't think the golden circle pricing is any better for completely different reasons. 

It's not. My point is it's not really any worse either.

[kingbadger]

Putting on a stadium show for less than £100 on average per ticket is impossible, which is why Sam Fender is doing exactly that for 40% of the price. 

[Hugh Jass II]

4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

You did. You said there shouldn't be a golden circle, and you said you understood how gigs at this level were priced and loved my explanation. 

If you're working to a fixed £X figure for ticket income, the consequence of cutting a premium ticket tier is an increase in prices somewhere else.

I did say there shouldn’t be golden circles and I stand by that. Didn’t say anything about avoiding tiering in the seats. In fact I said the opposite.

[stuie]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

You did. You said there shouldn't be a golden circle, and you said you understood how gigs at this level were priced and loved my explanation. 

If you're working to a fixed £X figure for ticket income, the consequence of cutting a premium ticket tier is an increase in prices somewhere else.

Or making less profit. 

[kingbadger]

Just now, stuie said:

Or making less profit. 

Yes but really what should happen is costs are passed onto fans, pricing a large % of them out, just to keep the profit margin the same.

[scatteredscreens]

2 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Yes but really what should happen is costs are passed onto fans, pricing a large % of them out, just to keep the profit margin the same.

Exactly. Cheese festivals don't fund themselves you know.

[clasher]

What is the biggest margin an artist can make to be considered decent and is it any different for your local band and stadium selling artists? I'm genuinely asking.

Oh and the cheapest tickets at 80 are pricing people out, not the most expensive tiers.

[moogster]

42 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

 I am a procurement manager when I’m not posting on here and one of the things I see constantly these days is suppliers trying to push through unrealistic price hikes because they think they currently have the opportunity to.

.

I am on the supplier side and... This is true. Making the cash while everyone is saying "oh it's inflation" before it all comes down I  the coming months...

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, clasher said:

What is the biggest margin an artist can make to be considered decent and is it any different for your local band and stadium selling artists? I'm genuinely asking.

Oh and the cheapest tickets at 80 are pricing people out, not the most expensive tiers.

Surely the question is what is the smallest margin an artist can make to be considered decent?

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Or making less profit. 

The profit is irrelevant. You determine the expected profit first, and then figure out your pricing. Whether you have a golden circle or not is just pricing strategy. It's how you reach the final figure.

This gig could be run for zero profit and it could still have a golden circle. It's just all the tickets would be half the price. Or it could have zero profit and all the tickets be the same price and they'd be a bit more than half the current price. 

Or it could have the same level of profit, and no golden circle, and all the tickets would be £10 more.

I promise you, in the history of planning stadium gigs, at no point has anyone delivered a pricing strategy that brings the event in on budget, only to have someone go "tell you what, how about we add a golden circle, make an extra £200,000, and pocket the difference". 

Certainly some acts don't like the idea of a golden circle, so insist there isn't one, which is a fair approach. 

And even if someone delivered a pricing plan and the band said "actually, we'll knock £200,000 off our fee, how much cheaper can you make it?" why is the immediate response "drop the gold circle"? Because again, it becomes a trade-off. Yes, you could do that, or you could actually make the lower priced tickets *less than eighty quid* and thus open up the gig to more people. 

And unless you're at the point of giving those tickets away, then that trade-off will always exist. Doesn't matter how much the band or the management cut their profits, every quid they cut by can go towards ditching the gold circle or making other tickets cheaper.

[clasher]

6 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Surely the question is what is the smallest margin an artist can make to be considered decent?

The question is how much money are artists allowed to make by the eFests collective wisdom before they are considered money grabbing and ripping off.

In numbers, please.

[stuie]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The profit is irrelevant. You determine the expected profit first, and then figure out your pricing. Whether you have a golden circle or not is just pricing strategy. It's how you reach the final figure.

This gig could be run for zero profit and it could still have a golden circle. It's just all the tickets would be half the price. Or it could have zero profit and all the tickets be the same price and they'd be a bit more than half the current price. 

Or it could have the same level of profit, and no golden circle, and all the tickets would be £10 more.

I promise you, in the history of planning stadium gigs, at no point has anyone delivered a pricing strategy that brings the event in on budget, only to have someone go "tell you what, how about we add a golden circle, make an extra £200,000, and pocket the difference". 

Certainly some acts don't like the idea of a golden circle, so insist there isn't one, which is a fair approach. 

And even if someone delivered a pricing plan and the band said "actually, we'll knock £200,000 off our fee, how much cheaper can you make it?" why is the immediate response "drop the gold circle"? Because again, it becomes a trade-off. Yes, you could do that, or you could actually make the lower priced tickets *less than eighty quid* and thus open up the gig to more people. 

And unless you're at the point of giving those tickets away, then that trade-off will always exist. Doesn't matter how much the band or the management cut their profits, every quid they cut by can go towards ditching the gold circle or making other tickets cheaper.

Sorry, not sure what you mean with all this but you sound experienced in planning stadium gigs. 

The options here were big pay day or slightly smaller pay day. 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by stuie

[09matthewsw]

6 minutes ago, clasher said:

The question is how much money are artists allowed to make by the eFests collective wisdom before they are considered money grabbing and ripping off.

In numbers, please.

How much do you think Blur and their team will make from the Wembley show? And then I’ll tell you if it’s too much😂

[DeanoL]

Just now, stuie said:

Sorry, not sure what you mean with all this but you sound experienced in planning stadium gigs. 

The options here were big bay day or slightly smaller pay day. 

You can always take less profit, and cut costs, until you literally can't any more. And the more you do it, the cheaper the tickets can be. Paul Heaton has done this with his arena tour, and he's delivering £30 tickets across the board, and that's fucking brilliant. But had he put in a Golden Circle, charged £50 for 1000 golden circle tickets, and then made the 1000 worst seats in each arena £10, so that people really hard up can still go, would that make him a greedy c**t?

[clasher]

6 minutes ago, 09matthewsw said:

How much do you think Blur and their team will make from the Wembley show? And then I’ll tell you if it’s too much😂

A lot I imagine, but I have no clue whatsoever. Neither does anyone here, and that's the point.

What do you think, how much is too much? We can do %, not absolute numbers. If the average ticket is 100, how much can the artist get from that?

[Chef]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

You can always take less profit, and cut costs, until you literally can't any more. And the more you do it, the cheaper the tickets can be. Paul Heaton has done this with his arena tour, and he's delivering £30 tickets across the board, and that's fucking brilliant. But had he put in a Golden Circle, charged £50 for 1000 golden circle tickets, and then made the 1000 worst seats in each arena £10, so that people really hard up can still go, would that make him a greedy c**t?

Paul Heaton was on the radio last Friday and they asked him about this. Said he wanted to reduce the price from the last tour and his promotor wanted to increase it, so they compromised and decided to keep it the same. His view was everyone still makes a decent living even with tickets that price, so it was the right thing to do. 

[Skip997]

4 minutes ago, clasher said:

A lot I imagine, but I have no clue whatsoever. Neither does anyone here, and that's the point.

What do you think, how much is too much? We can do %, not absolute numbers. If the average ticket is 100, how much can the artist get from that?

How many tickets over the whole tour, how long does the tour last?

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, Chef said:

Paul Heaton was on the radio last Friday and they asked him about this. Said he wanted to reduce the price from the last tour and his promotor wanted to increase it, so they compromised and decided to keep it the same. His view was everyone still makes a decent living even with tickets that price, so it was the right thing to do. 

He's a decent lad.

[clasher]

23 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

How many tickets over the whole tour, how long does the tour last?

It's a country exclusive one off gig at a huge stadium (let's say 100k) in one of the most expensive cities on the continent. There is a possibility of further overseas dates. Oh, it's also a reunion after seven years of a band hugely popular in that country.

[kingbadger]

Just now, clasher said:

It's a country exclusive one off gig at a huge stadium (let's say 100k) in one of the most expensive cities on the continent.

Because again there's nothing better than making your fans fork out for travel and hotels in the most expensive city on the continent rather than touring and making things more accessible. Make as much money from folk as you can for the least amount of effort.