Brixton Crush

[TheGoodWillOut]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

That depends what was going on inside the pub and what measures the pub had put in place to cope with the situation they’d created. 

it's quiz night. free pint for the winner! 

[stuie]

5 minutes ago, TheGoodWillOut said:

it's quiz night. free pint for the winner! 

Sounds dangerous. 

[TheGoodWillOut]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

Sounds dangerous. 

it wasn't until a thousand people turned up to the invite only event and wanted in 

[dotdash79]

Not sure how everyone know it was all ticketless trying to get in and not that loads of people with tickets turned up close to stage time and the rush was caused as they thought they were missing the show. 

[dotdash79]

I’ve noticed that Wembley didn’t have a license review after what happened last summer. 

[Leyrulion]

26 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

I’ve noticed that Wembley didn’t have a license review after what happened last summer. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/euro-2020-final-review-fa-report-b1969120.html

There was an independent review held by Baroness Casey and a disciplinary hearing held by UEFA where England got a 2 game stadium ban (one suspended).

[K2SO]

3 hours ago, dotdash79 said:

Not sure how everyone know it was all ticketless trying to get in and not that loads of people with tickets turned up close to stage time and the rush was caused as they thought they were missing the show. 

That's still the fault of the punters though. You just wait in the queue until you're called forward to enter. It's not the security's fault if all these people turned up late. The doors open 2 hours before show time for a reason.

[Neil]

9 hours ago, stuie said:

That depends what was going on inside the pub and what measures the pub had put in place to cope with the situation they’d created. 

nailed it. 🙂 

[Jose Pose]

Some absolutely mad views on here, 2 people lost their lives. Just because you think you know what happened, even if you’re 99.9% likely to be right in your view, it’s only right the venue is closed until the actual facts can be established and steps can be taken (if any are even possible) to prevent it happening again.

Imagine we had the same attitude to everything else, a plane crashes but we just shrug our shoulders and say it’s just one of those things, let’s not blame the airline, these things happen, planes crash, carry on everyone.

We can only advance as human beings and as a society by learning from mistakes and making changes as result of them, just wanting to make assumptions about what happened and carrying on as normal is quite frankly a totally mental viewpoint. 

There is book called black box thinking which a few people on here might benefit from reading.

I’m also extremely confused by the viewpoint that having a ticket seemingly gives you the right to try and push your way in.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Jose Pose

[DarthSaul]

Alexandra Palace are looking for a bailout to meet rising costs and a 1.1million pound deficit. If Brixton's closed for a lengthy amount of time I can imagine a sponsor sticking their name in front of Ally Pally and it taking on a lot of the larger gigs Brixton won't be able to host. Chase Atlantic, Avril Lavigne, Keshi, Pendulum, Fat Boy Slim and lots more have multiple nights coming up in Brixton. 

[balti-pie]

Ally Pally is a fucking twat to get away from in order to get the last train home (12.05 to the south coast) whereas Brixton is a complete breeze. Plus Brixton academy has better sound, is a much nicer venue, better sightlines, a couple of alright pubs nearby, and is just plain all round better than Ally pally. I hope they can sort out the various issues with it, because its a wonderful place and needs to be protected. Its part of the fabric of the music scene, its legit worldwide famous

[gfa]

12 hours ago, dotdash79 said:

Not sure how everyone know it was all ticketless trying to get in and not that loads of people with tickets turned up close to stage time and the rush was caused as they thought they were missing the show. 

Think i said this pages back, no doubt in my mind that the majority of people trying to get in were fans with tickets

Massive speculation from me but I swear there wasn't a support act (bar a DJ), if there had been one then people would have arrived over a bigger spread of time.

11 hours ago, Leyrulion said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/euro-2020-final-review-fa-report-b1969120.html

There was an independent review held by Baroness Casey and a disciplinary hearing held by UEFA where England got a 2 game stadium ban (one suspended).

£

Edited December 23, 2022 by gfa

[Muppetmark]

15 hours ago, Leyrulion said:

Because the emergency licence hearing heard that the same situation happened in 2020 and it looks like changes weren't made. So the licence has been suspended until a proper hearing in January when more information from the full investigation can be heard.

 

also something similar happened in 2017. i can see the council's concern.

[TheGoodWillOut]

No way of knowing if those outside had tickets or not, i'd suggest there were lots outside who did have legitimate tickets but im also pretty sure there were more than a handul without tickets who wanted in for free.

The enquiry should be able to find out how many tickets were sold and how many were legitimately scanned in before the show started.  Purely speculative but if the venue is 90% full and there are still 2 thousand people outside, they all dont have tickets or there are many inside who jibbed in.

[Zoo Music Girl]

5 hours ago, balti-pie said:

Ally Pally is a fucking twat to get away from in order to get the last train home (12.05 to the south coast) whereas Brixton is a complete breeze. Plus Brixton academy has better sound, is a much nicer venue, better sightlines, a couple of alright pubs nearby, and is just plain all round better than Ally pally. I hope they can sort out the various issues with it, because its a wonderful place and needs to be protected. Its part of the fabric of the music scene, its legit worldwide famous

Yeah I agree with this. I don't mind Ally Pally as a venue, but even as a Londoner it's a right fucking pain to get back from. I love Brixton Academy, have been to more gigs than I could count there, so I hope they can sort it out. It definitely does need investigating, though.

[DeanoL]

If it was people with tickets, tickets would be scanned, searches would be done, and they'd be let in. They can be pretty quick when they get going.

So while it might have been only a few people without tickets and loads with tickets, it's still the folk without tickets who are holding up the queue as they can't be processed in.

[gfa]

23 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If it was people with tickets, tickets would be scanned, searches would be done, and they'd be let in. They can be pretty quick when they get going.

So while it might have been only a few people without tickets and loads with tickets, it's still the folk without tickets who are holding up the queue as they can't be processed in.

It could be definitely - 50-100 people all at once kicking off a fuss could completely fuck over the speed of the queue as security would have a nightmare dealing with that many people. Thats a huge difference to 1000+ ticketless fans though and either could have realistically caused this i think.

re moving to ally pally, the weekends are likely all booked so it would move brixton shows to the week which may piss people off. i'd have thought the olympia or somewhere would be the more likely replacement venue. far nearer to brixton too although not sure they care about that really. apollo too?

Edited December 23, 2022 by gfa

[gizmoman]

One lesson to be learned from this is surely that venues should be booking acts that are a relevant size, the fact this act could play 3 nights suggests they should really have been playing a bigger venue, an arena maybe. This has relevance to Glastonbury in the way big acts are sometimes booked into inappropriate sized venues, this is a guaranteed way of creating potential crowd problems. Promoters are usually pretty good in gauging demand and booking the right sized venue, looks like they slipped up here.

[Suprefan]

If the discussion is now about who had tickets and didnt outside then you need to look up the videos from inside that were taken when the gig started. I saw the one where Asake said it was over and it looked pretty much full to me. As mentioned if they check the scanning history and see how many were in then you can do the math on potentially how many were outside. But yeah, people died and apparently thats fine with some of you.

 

And now other venues around the city can take steps to not have this happen since its not a busy time of the year currently and have a minute before its back to normal In a couple weeks.

[Suprefan]

16 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

One lesson to be learned from this is surely that venues should be booking acts that are a relevant size, the fact this act could play 3 nights suggests they should really have been playing a bigger venue, an arena maybe. This has relevance to Glastonbury in the way big acts are sometimes booked into inappropriate sized venues, this is a guaranteed way of creating potential crowd problems. Promoters are usually pretty good in gauging demand and booking the right sized venue, looks like they slipped up here.

While this is true, how do you know if they could book a larger venue? If other places have spots taken then you go with what you can get. You cant say the promoter slipped up really. They met as much demand as possible with 3 gigs at a fairly large venue. Its not like he was doing Rough Trade East. In general we all love it when an act thats buzzy or is a large draw does gigs in a semi small space and get tickets for it. But now its like the reverse and they were supposed to have booked 2 nights at The O2 just cause? Olivia Rodrigo's tour was a total underplay from the get go. But she did those gigs regardless cause she didnt want to get thrust into doing arenas without any experience. She played the Eventim when she easily couldve done brixton or ally pally or the o2. Who messed up? Promoter or artist? Neither did in that case. This happened to Billie Eilish on her tour after her debut was released. Extra nights added and some venue upgrades. It upset a lot of people when she was playing a gig in chicago at a 5,000 cap venue and then they threw it into an arena and now you have to figure out who got standing tickets and who got seats. How is that fair to the fan when that happens?

Edited December 23, 2022 by Suprefan

[NoBuses]

 

35 minutes ago, Suprefan said:

While this is true, how do you know if they could book a larger venue? If other places have spots taken then you go with what you can get. You cant say the promoter slipped up really. They met as much demand as possible with 3 gigs at a fairly large venue. Its not like he was doing Rough Trade East. In general we all love it when an act thats buzzy or is a large draw does gigs in a semi small space and get tickets for it. But now its like the reverse and they were supposed to have booked 2 nights at The O2 just cause? Olivia Rodrigo's tour was a total underplay from the get go. But she did those gigs regardless cause she didnt want to get thrust into doing arenas without any experience. She played the Eventim when she easily couldve done brixton or ally pally or the o2. Who messed up? Promoter or artist? Neither did in that case. This happened to Billie Eilish on her tour after her debut was released. Extra nights added and some venue upgrades. It upset a lot of people when she was playing a gig in chicago at a 5,000 cap venue and then they threw it into an arena and now you have to figure out who got standing tickets and who got seats. How is that fair to the fan when that happens?

Harry Styles did brixton shows too this year

[jannybruck]

1 hour ago, Suprefan said:

As mentioned if they check the scanning history and see how many were in then you can do the math on potentially how many were outside. But yeah, people died and apparently thats fine with some of you.

Nobody – literally nobody – has said people dying is "fine", regardless of their position on what's happened. Every one of us goes to live music events here and recognises how tragic it is and how that could have been any of us.

You're such an arsehole sometimes and you really need to wind your neck in, honestly.

Edited December 23, 2022 by jannybruck

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, Suprefan said:

While this is true, how do you know if they could book a larger venue? If other places have spots taken then you go with what you can get. You cant say the promoter slipped up really. They met as much demand as possible with 3 gigs at a fairly large venue. Its not like he was doing Rough Trade East. In general we all love it when an act thats buzzy or is a large draw does gigs in a semi small space and get tickets for it. But now its like the reverse and they were supposed to have booked 2 nights at The O2 just cause? Olivia Rodrigo's tour was a total underplay from the get go. But she did those gigs regardless cause she didnt want to get thrust into doing arenas without any experience. She played the Eventim when she easily couldve done brixton or ally pally or the o2. Who messed up? Promoter or artist? Neither did in that case. This happened to Billie Eilish on her tour after her debut was released. Extra nights added and some venue upgrades. It upset a lot of people when she was playing a gig in chicago at a 5,000 cap venue and then they threw it into an arena and now you have to figure out who got standing tickets and who got seats. How is that fair to the fan when that happens?

"They met as much demand as possible with 3 gigs at a fairly large venue." They initially booked one night then added 2 more due to demand, they clearly underestimated it, I'm pretty sure, with hindsight they wished they had moved up to a bigger venue, even if it meant moving the date.

"How is that fair to the fan when that happens?", it's a fact of gigging life, it's happened to me on occasion, yes it's nice to see acts in a small venue but if demand is there it makes financial sense to move the gig, it also happens to make sense from a security point of view as we have seen, I don't know Brixton, but if it is the case that they have had issues in the past, that is even more reason to move the gig.

[Sketchead]

52 minutes ago, NoBuses said:

 

Harry Styles did brixton shows too this year

 

A one-off gig announced after he'd sold out multiple nights at Wembley, so fairly different tbf.

Overall, you can't blame the artist or promoters for booking the wrong venue. A lot of acts would prefer to do two or three nights in a smaller venue than one in a massive one, I think.

For me, if you haven't got a ticket, you turn up to try and get one off a tout then go home if you fail, or just don't bother. Doesn't seem hard to act like a normal human being. Really tragic what's happened.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Sketchead said:

 

A one-off gig announced after he'd sold out multiple nights at Wembley, so fairly different tbf.

Overall, you can't blame the artist or promoters for booking the wrong venue. A lot of acts would prefer to do two or three nights in a smaller venue than one in a massive one, I think.

For me, if you haven't got a ticket, you turn up to try and get one off a tout then go home if you fail, or just don't bother. Doesn't seem hard to act like a normal human being. Really tragic what's happened.

Talking to my friend recently his band would rather go slightly smaller on the venues so as to sell them out and create more hype … sometimes venue sizes aren’t available to fit the size the band has got to …