Brixton Crush

[p.pete]

42 minutes ago, gfa said:

People getting in without tickets is an issue but what should really be the headline is that there were 110 security staff instead of 190.

Based on £10/hour x 6 hours x 80 staff thats almost a £5k saving per night on takehome wages alone.

80 security staff missing is appalling, its almost 50%

Presumably that gets pocketed by a security company rather than the venue?  Presumably the venue should still be responsible for ensuring the people they get to do their security are organising things properly though...

[p.pete]

40 minutes ago, TomViolence said:

In my experience you get your ticket checked on 2-3 separate occasions at Brixton Academy so I'm not sure how you manage to bribe your way in 🤔

Presumably you pay the right guy and don't have those checks...

[gfa]

9 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Presumably that gets pocketed by a security company rather than the venue?  Presumably the venue should still be responsible for ensuring the people they get to do their security are organising things properly though...

The venue should realise 40% of their security aren't showing up, its not a small number and its their responsibility to have proper security so yep

People getting in without tickets happens everywhere and its not exactly a secret that security bring in heaps of drugs at festivals

[Cleetus]

Never been to the Brixton academy but been to the Glasgow academy countless times. 

Many sold out shows. Only remember once for Massive Attack that it felt weirdly and noticeably busy.

Never occurred to me that security might have been letting folk in for back handers.

These days you just wouldn't think it possible for major venues.

 

 

[p.pete]

3 minutes ago, gfa said:

The venue should realise 40% of their security aren't showing up, its not a small number and its their responsibility to have proper security so yep

People getting in without tickets happens everywhere and its not exactly a secret that security bring in heaps of drugs at festivals

Would be really nice if this clips their wings a bit / venues & festivals start holding to account a bit more.

Staff is an issue everywhere though.  Hospitals have to decide whether wards stay open due to not enough staff, care homes don't admit from hospitals due to not enough staff - festivals will proceed with security understaffed, but it all gets a bit scary.  The right decision can be to close the ward or cancel the gig/festival - but that's a very brave call - to avoid a much worse outcome.  A better decision would be to start paying people a bit more so that they want to do these jobs, that and open up the borders

[Leyrulion]

2 hours ago, Greenelk said:

I'm sure we've all been at gigs where something not right has happened with the capacity.  I remember being at a Manics gig at Shepherds Bush Empire a few years back, and downstairs was utterly rammed from front right to the back, far busier than I've ever seen.  I complained to a security card and basically got told to shut up or leave.  Thankfully nothing tragic happened as it did that night in Brixton, but the Academy is certainly not the only venue that has this problem

 

Happens far too often. Cracked phone screens, bad brightness mean tickets sometimes don't scan. Combined with a huge queue and the (poorly paid) ticket scanner can quickly decide it's going to be easier to just let the person in if it looks mostly legit, like your case. 

Usually they're only doing it for just a few because "it won't make a difference"....

 

It's sadly all too familiar, a load of little mistakes and bad practices that individually seem harmless, and most of the time is, add up into something that becomes a deadly event.

[scatteredscreens]

3 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

It's sadly all too familiar, a load of little mistakes and bad practices that individually seem harmless, and most of the time is, add up into something that becomes a deadly event.

it's the classic swiss cheese model

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

[gfa]

22 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Would be really nice if this clips their wings a bit / venues & festivals start holding to account a bit more.

Staff is an issue everywhere though.  Hospitals have to decide whether wards stay open due to not enough staff, care homes don't admit from hospitals due to not enough staff - festivals will proceed with security understaffed, but it all gets a bit scary.  The right decision can be to close the ward or cancel the gig/festival - but that's a very brave call - to avoid a much worse outcome.  A better decision would be to start paying people a bit more so that they want to do these jobs, that and open up the borders

Unfortunately it will just happen again inevitably

I wasn't about for Roskilde but that led to everything being tightened up but overtime people forget about events like that and security gets more lax, just for this to happen.

They could 100% get more security if they wanted to but from their view it was working how it was (until it wasn't, obviously) so then why call off shows. I doubt this was an anomaly in staffing figures.

[guypjfreak]

Have you seen the YouTube videos where large groups of people rush into shops and grab what they can and then rush out.. Knowing full well that maybe only one or two will be caught... 

Well maybe this happened here.... Its happened at festivals and football grounds.. Unfortunately here maybe it was a perfect storm and it had terrible circumstances.. 

 

[Padjeq]

30 minutes ago, Greenelk said:

I'm sure we've all been at gigs where something not right has happened with the capacity.  I remember being at a Manics gig at Shepherds Bush Empire a few years back, and downstairs was utterly rammed from front right to the back, far busier than I've ever seen.  I complained to a security card and basically got told to shut up or leave.  Thankfully nothing tragic happened as it did that night in Brixton, but the Academy is certainly not the only venue that has this problem

I find that anything with a higher percentage of blokes is way more packed. 2000 of them will fill a gig venue way more than 2000 young women watching Mimi Webb. It's horrible in Brum Academy for gigs like Pixies or Alkaline Trio. Just wall to wall people with no relief offered by moving to the back.

 

I can't get my head around the 110 security. Where are they placing them in these numbers? And they're meant to have near double.

[Acid Loafers]

I read accounts on of people getting in during the Fred again... Brixton shows through touts 🤝 security bribes. 

Pay the tout, go to a specific security guard. 

But do agree, not sure how you'd get into any of the areas, where you need to show a ticket that you're standing or seated.

Though sometimes, when it's later in the shows, maybe they're not as strict? (Assuming that at this point it's 30 mins until the headliner act starts, you're getting in like this)

Unless they got some old phony piece of paper. 

[Paul ™]

I've only been to Brixton twice I think, but 190 security seems very high for this size of venue, being 5k capacity.

That's one security member for every 26 people, unheard of in the industry.

I've no way of knowing how accurate that 110/190 is, but will try find out what the staffing levels should be.

I've worked a lot of venues, including 02 venues and usually in the Glasgow one it's about 40 staff for 2500 capacity, so 50% and one staff member for around 60 people 

The O2 ABC in Glasgow when it was open was about 1300 for Hall 1 and we usually had about 20 staff on, a few more if needed, but that's around the same ratio as the academy.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Paul ™
typos

[gfa]

26 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

I've only been to Brixton twice I think, but 190 security seems very high for this size of venue, being 5k capacity.

That's one security member for every 26 people, unheard of in the industry.

I've no way of knowing how accurate that 110/190 is, but will try find out what the staffing levels should be.

I've worked a lot of venues, including 02 venues and usually in the Glasgow one it's about 40 staff for 2500 capacity, so 50% and one staff member for around 60 people 

The O2 ABC in Glasgow when it was open was about 1300 for Hall 1 and we usually had about 20 staff on, a few more if needed, but that's around the same ratio as the academy.

 

 

I agree 190 seems very high but if this is what its meant to be that leaves them massively open to criticism.

[Johnnyseven]

55 minutes ago, Acid Loafers said:

I read accounts on of people getting in during the Fred again... Brixton shows through touts 🤝 security bribes. 

Pay the tout, go to a specific security guard. 

But do agree, not sure how you'd get into any of the areas, where you need to show a ticket that you're standing or seated.

Though sometimes, when it's later in the shows, maybe they're not as strict? (Assuming that at this point it's 30 mins until the headliner act starts, you're getting in like this)

Unless they got some old phony piece of paper. 

The last couple of times i've been to Brixton Academy there was nobody checking tickets to get into the downstairs section or onto the balcony, you could just wander round the place going wherever you wanted.

[Old_Johno]

59 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

I've only been to Brixton twice I think, but 190 security seems very high for this size of venue, being 5k capacity.

That's one security member for every 26 people, unheard of in the industry.

I've no way of knowing how accurate that 110/190 is, but will try find out what the staffing levels should be.

I've worked a lot of venues, including 02 venues and usually in the Glasgow one it's about 40 staff for 2500 capacity, so 50% and one staff member for around 60 people 

The O2 ABC in Glasgow when it was open was about 1300 for Hall 1 and we usually had about 20 staff on, a few more if needed, but that's around the same ratio as the academy.

 

 

Probably the same reason the McDonald’s in Brixton has about 10 security staff, high likelihood of something kicking 

[Acid Loafers]

6 minutes ago, Johnnyseven said:

The last couple of times i've been to Brixton Academy there was nobody checking tickets to get into the downstairs section or onto the balcony, you could just wander round the place going wherever you wanted.

Was it a gig that had tickets which had a difference between Stalls, Circle & Circle Standing?

As more recently they've had "Club" style events, where it's just one ticket type that you can wander & others where your ticket area is a (supposed to be) monitored

[Johnnyseven]

3 minutes ago, Acid Loafers said:

Was it a gig that had tickets which had a difference between Stalls, Circle & Circle Standing?

As more recently they've had "Club" style events, where it's just one ticket type that you can wander & others where your ticket area is a (supposed to be) monitored

The last event was Max Cooper so it could have been club type event, my mate bought the tickets so i'm not sure I even saw them. Can't remember who I saw before that tbh. Wouldn't they be limiting capacity if they just had 1 ticket for the whole venue. If they had the same capacity as a usual gig they'd have big issues if everyone decided they wanted to go downstairs. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Johnnyseven

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, Paul ™ said:

I've only been to Brixton twice I think, but 190 security seems very high for this size of venue, being 5k capacity.

That's one security member for every 26 people, unheard of in the industry.

I've no way of knowing how accurate that 110/190 is, but will try find out what the staffing levels should be.

I've worked a lot of venues, including 02 venues and usually in the Glasgow one it's about 40 staff for 2500 capacity, so 50% and one staff member for around 60 people 

The O2 ABC in Glasgow when it was open was about 1300 for Hall 1 and we usually had about 20 staff on, a few more if needed, but that's around the same ratio as the academy.

 

 

My reading was that it was supposed to be higher than normal, because they had intelligence that a load of people where going to turn up to try and get in without a ticket. ( that was said at the first hearing last month). They had basically anticipated there being some trouble for that concert, so i think the issue there was they didn't get the extra security they were supposed to 

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, Johnnyseven said:

The last couple of times i've been to Brixton Academy there was nobody checking tickets to get into the downstairs section or onto the balcony, you could just wander round the place going wherever you wanted.

Depends if its sold out or not. Ive been to undersold gigs where they dont check tickets between upstairs and downstairs

[gfa]

Looks split based off this tweet of someone selling their ticket

 

could probably check the wayback machine or something too

[Johnnyseven]

28 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Depends if its sold out or not. Ive been to undersold gigs where they dont check tickets between upstairs and downstairs

Pretty sure Max Cooper was sold out, at least he announced it had been before the gig. As @Acid Loafers said though it's possible that as it was being run as a club night it was purposely all open. I'm sure at other gigs i've been to over the last few years they didn't check tickets for downstairs, but I can't remember what i've been to apart from Four Tet and Jon Hopkins but they were a long time ago now. Possible Four Tet was also a club night but I don't think Jon Hopkins was. 

[Punisher]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:02 PM, Dales said:

Just saw on the news that the academy will be closed for a further 3 months. That's a lot of gigs to reschedule. I think a few of the early January ones got moved to the Hammersmith Apollo. Hoping Suede and Viagra Boys don't get moved there as its a pain for me to get to.

Hopefully, the council and who ever is investigating will was use the time wisely and make some recommendations for the future to ensure it does not happen again.

Viagra Boys has been moved to Troxy in Limehouse.

[Muppetmark]

2 hours ago, zahidf said:

Depends if its sold out or not. Ive been to undersold gigs where they dont check tickets between upstairs and downstairs

at fred my friends got checked who went early but i went closer to freds set time and didnt get checked

Edited January 17, 2023 by Muppetmark

[Paul ™]

3 hours ago, zahidf said:

My reading was that it was supposed to be higher than normal, because they had intelligence that a load of people where going to turn up to try and get in without a ticket. ( that was said at the first hearing last month). They had basically anticipated there being some trouble for that concert, so i think the issue there was they didn't get the extra security they were supposed to 

I thought that too but it was mentioned on here that that intelligence related to the first night of the 3. 

Severe lack of information about this whole thing still, did anyone have any further news on the 3rd person who was in hospital?

[gfa]

More on brixton - BBC has moved onto security numbers

interesting the crowd ranking thing - tier 5 show (max security), would love to see the whole document

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64263074