Avalon 2023

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Except the person who said that others should keep their head down?

We're going around in circles now. 

And all because Jamie Webster is playing Avalon! 

Can't wait for the Left Field poster drop. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Just now, hpops said:

Some people should be made to feel unwelcome - racists/homophobes for example. It's the age old Popper paradox. I wouldn't go so far as to apply this to tory voters - but sometimes it edges uncomfortably close

Yeah, very much so. There's always a question about how far tolerance goes and what should be done in legal terms without resorting to violence.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Just now, stuie said:

We're going around in circles now. 

And all because Jamie Webster is playing Avalon! 

Can't wait for the Left Field poster drop. 

Like I've said before, I couldn't care less about him playing or the chant... But yes, we went over this yesterday or the day before.

Anyway, I'll hopefully catch one of the debates in Left Field again. Do they invite opposing academics in for an alternative point of view? The debate I saw in 2017 was more like a discussion between agreeing individuals than anything else.

[Justcalledtosay]

6 minutes ago, hpops said:

Some people should be made to feel unwelcome - racists/homophobes for example. It's the age old Popper paradox. I wouldn't go so far as to apply this to tory voters - but sometimes it edges uncomfortably close

Lets keep it within the context of the discussion.

[DeanoL]

30 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Jesus H. Christ. I've said this a tonne of times now. I don't care about the song or the chanting. I bet there were Tory voters at that gig enjoying it, either ridiculing it or enjoying the hilarity of it.

The comment that I didn't like was the fact someone said the Tory voters should keep their heads down, which I think is counterproductive because, a) it won't work or change anyone's opinions, b) is threatening, c) makes people look like bullies.

Okay - can I just ask, as I think it's the core of what we're misunderstanding here - what do you think "a Tory voter *not* keeping their head down" looks like?

Because I'm struggling to understand what you think that is. There's not really any opportunities nor reason at the festival to go "hey I'm a Tory, but I'm cool and lets not make anything of it".

People aren't self-identifying as Tory (ie. not keeping their head down) unless they're being a dick about it. And if they're then met with lefties being dicks back to them... well yeah.

(The exception here is the Leftfield debates which aren't interested in hearing other points of view, which I find to be a shame and have said as much in the past, as they're meant to be, y'know, debates - and I'm not a fan of how people who have bought up more conservative views have been treated at them in the past. But then, it's the "Left" field)

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Let's get back to Avalon anyway! Really like her tunes on this sunny Wednesday - 

 

 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Okay - can I just ask, as I think it's the core of what we're misunderstanding here - what do you think "a Tory voter *not* keeping their head down" looks like?

Because I'm struggling to understand what you think that is. There's not really any opportunities nor reason at the festival to go "hey I'm a Tory, but I'm cool and lets not make anything of it".

People aren't self-identifying as Tory (ie. not keeping their head down) unless they're being a dick about it. And if they're then met with lefties being dicks back to them... well yeah.

(The exception here is the Leftfield debates which aren't interested in hearing other points of view, which I find to be a shame and have said as much in the past, as they're meant to be, y'know, debates - and I'm not a fan of how people who have bought up more conservative views have been treated at them in the past. But then, it's the "Left" field)

Just as the dictionary suggests. Being told to behave or keep a low profile so that people will not notice you. I don't think anyone should be made to feel like that at Glastonbury.

And obviously I don't think the comment was being made in such a context that we should all behave or should all keep our heads down, it was specifically aimed at people at the festival who voted Conservative, a reminder that they should keep their mouths shut.

Edited April 19, 2023 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON

[JayDiesel]

There's something beautifully ironic that the fucking Avalon chat is where people have decided to kick off at each other.

It's like seeing the Mums scrapping outside Popworld.

Edited April 19, 2023 by JayDiesel

[Blisterpack]

2 hours ago, JudgeGrumpy said:

Nobody saying you should be quiet (try to debate on what people are actually saying rather than anything else) but you should be prepared for people to rip the piss out of you for comparing the two things in such a mindless way. 

If anything, the still-a-bit-porous-anyway Glasto fence at 7.8 km versus the USA/Mexico border at 3,124 km shows any parallel you were trying to make to discredit Corbyn was utterly ridiculous. 

Corbyn’s manifesto was the best chance this country had to not slide further into a Tory hellscape. Sadly Starmer has binned most of the best policies (public ownership of water and energy for example) to be as Tory-lite as he can.
 

Scotland has water in public ownership but not the rest of the UK. Why? Because 1898 is closer to the last time Scotland voted Tory than today is. 

You seem to be missing the point that Tories in their current incarnation *are* hateful. They are a far right English nationalist party - not my quote, but said by one of Thatcher’s ministers. Which is precisely why they would get short shrift if Rishi bounded on stage and tried to give a speech like Corbyn did. I’d welcome his appearance for the laugh though. Would be one of my must sees. 

Public ownership of energy and utilities remains a Labour ambition. In the short term however in the current climate, it makes zero sense. The ownership is of the service and supply, not the product. And in the case of energy it is the price of the product that is through the roof. Why should the Government be buying energy at huge wholesale prices? A lot of energy companies without huge reserves have gone bust trying to. Starmer is closer to Miliband and Brown in terms of his policies but is seen as not left enough cos he isn’t Corbyn. He seems thick skinned enough to ride that out and get rid of the Tories thank God. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

1 minute ago, JayDiesel said:

There's something beautifully ironic that the fucking Avalon chat is where people have decided to kick off at each other.

It's like seeing the Mums scrapping outside Popworld.

I laughed out loud so loudly at this comment, I almost woke my sleeping one year old! 😆

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Public ownership of energy and utilities remains a Labour ambition. In the short term however in the current climate, it makes zero sense. The ownership is of the service and supply, not the product. And in the case of energy it is the price of the product that is through the roof. Why should the Government be buying energy at huge wholesale prices? A lot of energy companies without huge reserves have gone bust trying to. Starmer is closer to Miliband and Brown in terms of his policies but is seen as not left enough cos he isn’t Corbyn. He seems thick skinned enough to ride that out and get rid of the Tories thank God. 

This ignores that renewables are artificially priced as high as gas, that the wholesale price is currently lower than before this crisis started and that we have a very low level of storage facilities due to lack of investment. 

This is also not related to Avalon in the slightest. 

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

This is also not related to Avalon in the slightest. 

Sorry, to get back on topic: I am left of centre in my politics and a Scouser. And I hate Jamie fucking Webster. His quasi-racist webcast ‘bantz’ with Paddy the Baddy should have him binned from Glastonbury for life. But he gets a free pass for his chant. 

[DeanoL]

12 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Just as the dictionary suggests. Being told to behave or keep a low profile so that people will not notice you. I don't think anyone should be made to feel like that at Glastonbury.

But what does that actually look like? What is this theoretical person doing to openly display that they're a Tory? 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But what does that actually look like? What is this theoretical person doing to openly display that they're a Tory? 

It doesn't matter what they look like or what they're doing. As long as they're having fun and not harming anyone, they should be made to feel as welcome as anyone else and shouldn't be made to feel like they have to keep their heads down and be a subdued version of themselves.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But what does that actually look like? What is this theoretical person doing to openly display that they're a Tory? 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

7 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Sorry, to get back on topic: I am left of centre in my politics and a Scouser. And I hate Jamie fucking Webster. His quasi-racist webcast ‘bantz’ with Paddy the Baddy should have him binned from Glastonbury for life. But he gets a free pass for his chant. 

For someone who is unaware of Jamie Webster or his work outside singing, what did he say on the webcast exactly?

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

In fairness, if someone went around with that on, do you think they'd actually get any shit or would people just think it's a big piss take and have a laugh with them? 

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

It doesn't matter what they look like or what they're doing. As long as they're having fun and not harming anyone, they should be made to feel as welcome as anyone else and shouldn't be made to feel like they have to keep their heads down and be a subdued version of themselves.

How do you behave in a way that's openly Tory *without* harming or upsetting anyone?

Like I say, it's a festival, we're not going around going "hey, I vote for Labour, but it's cool, I don't mind who you vote for, let's dance".

I think you're arguing something theoretical, which I don't disagree with on that level, but we're arguing something practical. If someone goes around openly shouting Tory phrases or whatever they're going to get stick back. But the aggression there is going in both directions.

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

For someone who is unaware of Jamie Webster or his work outside singing, what did he say on the webcast exactly?

Pimblett was having a go at a Georgian opponent and making comments about how Georgians were shot scared of Russians - basically an attempt to diss his opponent. Webster laughing his cock off. A female Georgian UFC fighter called Pimblett out and the webcast disappeared. 

[rgill3]

19 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Sorry, to get back on topic: I am left of centre in my politics and a Scouser. And I hate Jamie fucking Webster. His quasi-racist webcast ‘bantz’ with Paddy the Baddy should have him binned from Glastonbury for life. But he gets a free pass for his chant. 

I'm scouse as well and I can't get behind him. Something about professional scousers do my head in and he's most definitely one of them. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Just now, DeanoL said:

How do you behave in a way that's openly Tory *without* harming or upsetting anyone?

Like I say, it's a festival, we're not going around going "hey, I vote for Labour, but it's cool, I don't mind who you vote for, let's dance".

I think you're arguing something theoretical, which I don't disagree with on that level, but we're arguing something practical. If someone goes around openly shouting Tory phrases or whatever they're going to get stick back. But the aggression there is going in both directions.

I mean, Tories aren't some kind of mythical beast, that if they act their "Tory" way, are going to be gobbling people up? They're not going to go around the festival privatising the stages and the tents?

How does someone in your opinion act openly "Tory"? Like, probably most of the modern Glasto food stands are going to be trying to make as much profit as possible all weekend. Should they have a good quick chants their way, maybe some graffiti on the side of their vans? Then they'll get the picture and lower their profit margins or donate more to charity!

My point isn't about them acting "Tory" or saying "Tory" phrases or something, but the idea that people are hoping others will keep their heads down, to subdue themselves, to keep it quiet that they vote Tory... or else!

I find that quite abhorrent. I would never dream of going anywhere and hoping that people of a particular identity should keep their heads down - within the normal parameters of this discussion.

[sisco]

BORINGGGGGGGGG

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

8 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Pimblett was having a go at a Georgian opponent and making comments about how Georgians were shot scared of Russians - basically an attempt to diss his opponent. Webster laughing his cock off. A female Georgian UFC fighter called Pimblett out and the webcast disappeared. 

Not a good look for either of them then. Shame it got pulled, would quite like to see it now.

[stuie]

1 minute ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

I mean, Tories aren't some kind of mythical beast, that if they act their "Tory" way, are going to be gobbling people up? They're not going to go around the festival privatising the stages and the tents?

How does someone in your opinion act openly "Tory"? Like, probably most of the modern Glasto food stands are going to be trying to make as much profit as possible all weekend. Should they have a good quick chants their way, maybe some graffiti on the side of their vans? Then they'll get the picture and lower their profit margins or donate more to charity!

My point isn't about them acting "Tory" or saying "Tory" phrases or something, but the idea that people are hoping others will keep their heads down, to subdue themselves, to keep it quiet that they vote Tory... or else!

I find that quite abhorrent. I would never dream of going anywhere and hoping that people of a particular identity should keep their heads down - within the normal parameters of this discussion.

Are you deliberately not getting it?  There is no visible way to spot a Tory... therefore the argument you keep making just doesn't exist. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

10 minutes ago, stuie said:

Are you deliberately not getting it?  There is no visible way to spot a Tory... therefore the argument you keep making just doesn't exist. 

Yes, I know that. I literally just said that in the message you quoted me in?

I'll summarise it, again...

My point is that some users think its a good thing to subdue others at the festival based on their political affiliation, to remind them that they're not liked, and shouldn't say or act how they would normally. You can't see them obviously, but people are happy to remind them of their place, knowing that they're subduing people around them. Not that they can see them!

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON