Left field 2023

[Colorblindjames]

IMO Wes Streeting should have no place in a left field tent. 

A bit worried about the direction Glastonbury is taking this year. Seems to be departing from its more radical past. 

[Gnomicide]

4 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

IMO Wes Streeting should have no place in a left field tent. 

A bit worried about the direction Glastonbury is taking this year. Seems to be departing from its more radical past. 

He's there to be part of the discussion, not to give a press conference. He will be called out on his views on privatisation.

[giantkatestacks]

25 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

He's there to be part of the discussion, not to give a press conference. He will be called out on his views on privatisation.

Indeed, Tony Benn was always very clear on the need for discussion and bringing people round to your point of view that way.

[Gnomicide]

[Justcalledtosay]

Surely any form of discussion or debate needs two sides to make it a worthwhile?

[p.pete]

1 hour ago, Justcalledtosay said:

Surely any form of discussion or debate needs two sides to make it a worthwhile?

Absolutely, @Blisterpack will be along in a minute to remind us that Keir & Wes are a well-meaning great bunch of lads

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, Gnomicide said:

He's there to be part of the discussion, not to give a press conference. He will be called out on his views on privatisation.

Streeting is idiot. His views change with the wind. Privatisation of the NHS shouldn't even be up for debate. The fact that we will have someone arguing for privatisation of the NHS in a leftfield tent is ludicrous. 

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, Justcalledtosay said:

Surely any form of discussion or debate needs two sides to make it a worthwhile?

There aren't two sides in this debate. The UK public clearly don't want privatisation of the NHS. 

Streeting has taken a 15k donation from private healthcare. He is in no position to provide a view as he's been corrupted by his donors. By inviting him we are normalising discussion of NHS privatisation. 

[bennyhana22]

If everyone on a panel has the same agenda/opinion/position, it's an echo chamber. 

I'd be confident that the majority of those at Glastonbury that are engaged in politics see themselves as various degrees of left of centre. If people see Wes Streeting as in conflict with their perception of a progressive, inclusive left wing philosophy, they should actually go to the debate and make themselves heard! Suggesting that the Shadow Secretary of State for HSC 'shouldn't be at Glastonbury' is, IMO, the antithesis of a desire to rescue the NHS from the horrific, HORRIFIC, position in which it currently finds itself. I'm a 30 year NHS veteran, this year. 

Ben

[Justcalledtosay]

28 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

There aren't two sides in this debate. The UK public clearly don't want privatisation of the NHS. 

Streeting has taken a 15k donation from private healthcare. He is in no position to provide a view as he's been corrupted by his donors. By inviting him we are normalising discussion of NHS privatisation. 

By inviting him to speak, you're putting his actions and beliefs under the spotlight. You'd expect someone in the panel to expose him in they're worth their salt.

 

Shouting something at someone never got us anywhere...just look at BREXIT.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Justcalledtosay

[DeanoL]

25 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

There aren't two sides in this debate. The UK public clearly don't want privatisation of the NHS. 

Streeting has taken a 15k donation from private healthcare. He is in no position to provide a view as he's been corrupted by his donors. By inviting him we are normalising discussion of NHS privatisation. 

And you never know, maybe he'll change his mind?

Leftfield invite a lot of MPs every year, and very few ever take them up on it. I don't agree with Streeting's views but I'm massively impressed that he's willing to appear, when it's not like he won't be aware of what he's in for on an actual panel about the NHS.

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, p.pete said:

Absolutely, @Blisterpack will be along in a minute to remind us that Keir & Wes are a well-meaning great bunch of lads

Well I’ll be along to point out that in a naturally very conservative (small c) country, they offer the only chance of keeping actual Tories out. But then I’m a 60 yr old who has seen a lot of politics. 

 

[DeanoL]

8 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Well I’ll be along to point out that in a naturally very conservative (small c) country, they offer the only chance of keeping actual Tories out. But then I’m a 60 yr old who has seen a lot of politics. 

 

Yet Brexit was a direct result of people voting for parties with no chance of being elected.

[Alvoram]

20 hours ago, stuie said:

Glad it wasn't just me that thought this.  Being the first day back to work after BH weekend I was a little busy to enter into political debate this morning but I very much agree. 

I think most people that work in the NHS would agree that reforms are essential going forward but reform absolutely categorically does not mean privatisation. 

First off, let me say two things, firstly I've only got as far as the first page and this post in catching up, so this may have already been discussed. And secondly, I do not work in the NHS, so my views are from the outside, and from speaking to a) my sister and b) a good friend who both happen to be nurse practitioners, in hospitals run by different trusts. (One Notts, one Derby and Burton.) 

With that in mind let me just say that I, and I think by extension they, would whole heartedly agree with this. Their biggest complaint of the last few years has been the use of private industry within the NHS. Mostly the use of agencies for staff. Their biggest gripe has been that they're constantly working with less experienced (for the particular role on the particular ward) staff, who cost the trust an eye watering 4 figure sum per single shift.

They feel that if they just increased the wages for permanent employees, and especially overtime pay, they could attract more people into roles that need filling, and also incentivise those they have now to do a little more overtime. Thus they wouldn't need to outsource the staffing so much, and could save a fortune whilst looking after their own. 

To me, that sounds like exactly the sort of reform, away from privatisation, that is needed, and hopefully the kind of reform Labour could look seriously into. I don't know if this is happening all over the country, but I do know it's happening a lot in Derby and Notts. 

And also, let me just say once again, I'm just a bumbling buffoon on the outside looking in. But from where I'm standing, and from what they're telling me, this is a massive issue that, by it's very nature, is spiralling out of control and leading us quietly into privatisation by stealth. But then, whaddo I know? 🤷‍♂️

Edited May 3, 2023 by Alvoram

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, Justcalledtosay said:

By inviting him to speak, you're putting his actions and beliefs under the spotlight. You'd expect someone in the panel to expose him in they're worth their salt.

 

Shouting something at someone never got us anywhere...just look at BREXIT.

Could they not have gotten someone else other than someone being paid to express the views of others on the NHS? Why book someone as a panelist when we cannot be sure who they are speaking on behalf?

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

And you never know, maybe he'll change his mind?

Leftfield invite a lot of MPs every year, and very few ever take them up on it. I don't agree with Streeting's views but I'm massively impressed that he's willing to appear, when it's not like he won't be aware of what he's in for on an actual panel about the NHS.

If you are familiar with his personality I'm not surprised he's taken the opportunity. 

When we aren't sure who a panelist is speaking on behalf they should never be booked. 

[incident]

Just now, Colorblindjames said:

If you are familiar with his personality I'm not surprised he's taken the opportunity. 

When we aren't sure who a panelist is speaking on behalf they should never be booked. 

Could you explain that to Billy Bragg, and then let us know when he revokes the invitation?

[DeanoL]

6 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Could they not have gotten someone else other than someone being paid to express the views of others on the NHS? Why book someone as a panelist when we cannot be sure who they are speaking on behalf?

I'm sure they could have. But they've instead got an MP who actually has the ability to make change. I don't think it's ever wise to pass that up.

[stuie]

6 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm sure they could have. But they've instead got an MP who actually has the ability to make change. I don't think it's ever wise to pass that up.

I agree. And in my opinion, as an ageing lefty cynic, he seems quite balanced in his ideas.  Reform is necessary. You can't just keep throwing money at a problem and expect it to fix itself. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/20/labour-wes-streeting-reform-is-not-a-conservative-word-nhs-health

 

[Colorblindjames]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

I agree. And in my opinion, as an ageing lefty cynic, he seems quite balanced in his ideas.  Reform is necessary. You can't just keep throwing money at a problem and expect it to fix itself. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/20/labour-wes-streeting-reform-is-not-a-conservative-word-nhs-health

 

The problem is they aren't throwing enough money at the problem and are planning to throw more money at private companies. 

[Colorblindjames]

14 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm sure they could have. But they've instead got an MP who actually has the ability to make change. I don't think it's ever wise to pass that up.

He has no intention of making changes that benefit the leftfield audience as can be seen from his 15k donation. 

[p.pete]

8 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

He has no intention of making changes that benefit the leftfield audience as can be seen from his 15k donation. 

I'm sure this won't be his first debate (not that it'll be run like a debate), and I'm sure he's clever enough to prepare for obvious callings out of his failings and biases - but still I reckon fair play to him for turning up.  If they could get Jeremy Hunt or Steve Barclay I think they should have a place.

[Gnomicide]

To me, Left Field is about what the left can do to make the world a better place, inviting Tories along to have a shouting match doesn't do that.

Now like it or not, agree with it or not, Streetling is part of the left. Given his current position, he's an important part of the left. Having him in a discussion with people who are very anti-privatisation and (I'm pretty certain) an audience that will back them up may be a good thing. Will what is discussed change his mind? I doubt it, but giving people who he may otherwise never talk to, the opportunity to put across their opposing view to him must be a good thing.

[moogster]

I'm not British so can only partially relate to some of the topics like the above but the couple of times I went, for a round up or for a gig, I did feel quite... empowered and motivated to do more, and it feels great to see there is still some energy and will to go forward to a better planet and humanity, when so many have given up. I am sure that after half an hour at an NHS debate I'd end up taking holidays to come and demonstrate for the NHS in the UK 🙂

[Colorblindjames]

2 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

To me, Left Field is about what the left can do to make the world a better place, inviting Tories along to have a shouting match doesn't do that.

Now like it or not, agree with it or not, Streetling is part of the left. Given his current position, he's an important part of the left. Having him in a discussion with people who are very anti-privatisation and (I'm pretty certain) an audience that will back them up may be a good thing. Will what is discussed change his mind? I doubt it, but giving people who he may otherwise never talk to, the opportunity to put across their opposing view to him must be a good thing.

The is a similar incorrect argument that is made when climate change deniers are given the same profile/platform as climate scientists.