New App ?

[Alvoram]

I'm not sure I'm making sense here to be honest, not explaining it well enough. I'll try an analogy... 

If I sell t shirts and decide to sell one with a tick on it that's a little too similar to Nike's logo. I'll get a cease and desist from their lawyers instructing me to stop selling clothing bearing Nike's trademark

To abide by the cease and desist, I stop selling T shirts with the Nike tick on it... I wouldn't be expected to stop selling T shirts altogether. 

In this case, he stopped using their trademarks, what right did they have to make him stop working on a festival app altogether?

[faymondo]

6 hours ago, Alvoram said:

I'm not sure I'm making sense here to be honest, not explaining it well enough. I'll try an analogy... 

If I sell t shirts and decide to sell one with a tick on it that's a little too similar to Nike's logo. I'll get a cease and desist from their lawyers instructing me to stop selling clothing bearing Nike's trademark

To abide by the cease and desist, I stop selling T shirts with the Nike tick on it... I wouldn't be expected to stop selling T shirts altogether. 

In this case, he stopped using their trademarks, what right did they have to make him stop working on a festival app altogether?

Compete guess but assuming the data EG times etc is their property. A bit like the football fixtures are the premier league property and cant be used without permission ?? 

[Harry MonkFish]

8 hours ago, Alvoram said:

I'm not sure I'm making sense here to be honest, not explaining it well enough. I'll try an analogy... 

If I sell t shirts and decide to sell one with a tick on it that's a little too similar to Nike's logo. I'll get a cease and desist from their lawyers instructing me to stop selling clothing bearing Nike's trademark

To abide by the cease and desist, I stop selling T shirts with the Nike tick on it... I wouldn't be expected to stop selling T shirts altogether. 

In this case, he stopped using their trademarks, what right did they have to make him stop working on a festival app altogether?

My guess is they hope he would avoid the grief and take it down. 

 

They may not have a legitimate argument but they rely on their resources to bully others. 

[Alvoram]

1 hour ago, faymondo said:

Compete guess but assuming the data EG times etc is their property. A bit like the football fixtures are the premier league property and cant be used without permission ?? 

I think that's clutching... Not you, I mean them if it's true. They have a long history of not protecting that, clashfinder, various media outlets, etc etc. If they've no history of protecting it, they have no legs to stand on. Plus it's information that is very much in the public domain. Finally there is no 'creative' aspect to a list of set times, needed to protect it. 

Football fixtures were excluded from copyright protection by the EUCJ/CJEU for that very last reason. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17218968

[Alvoram]

4 minutes ago, Harry MonkFish said:

My guess is they hope he would avoid the grief and take it down. 

 

They may not have a legitimate argument but they rely on their resources to bully others. 

My thoughts exactly... And I hate it... Corporate bullying. 

[DeanoL]

8 hours ago, Alvoram said:

I'm not sure I'm making sense here to be honest, not explaining it well enough. I'll try an analogy... 

If I sell t shirts and decide to sell one with a tick on it that's a little too similar to Nike's logo. I'll get a cease and desist from their lawyers instructing me to stop selling clothing bearing Nike's trademark

To abide by the cease and desist, I stop selling T shirts with the Nike tick on it... I wouldn't be expected to stop selling T shirts altogether. 

In this case, he stopped using their trademarks, what right did they have to make him stop working on a festival app altogether?

I think it might fall foul of passing off still. To be clear I don't really agree with how this works but my understanding from a legal perspective...

He has benefitted from the misunderstanding intentionally or unintentionally created by using some of the official logos etc. to create publicity, capture consumers and so on. Therefore even if those elements are then removed, he has still had the benefit of using them. Given it's non-commercial (I think) it shouldn't really matter, but there's nothing to stop him say, adding adverts later.

So you can argue that any future such app he makes will benefit from the publicity created by the initial release, and is therefore tainted by it.

(Again - I'm not saying this is right, just why there is an argument)

[Alvoram]

14 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I think it might fall foul of passing off still. To be clear I don't really agree with how this works but my understanding from a legal perspective...

He has benefitted from the misunderstanding intentionally or unintentionally created by using some of the official logos etc. to create publicity, capture consumers and so on. Therefore even if those elements are then removed, he has still had the benefit of using them. Given it's non-commercial (I think) it shouldn't really matter, but there's nothing to stop him say, adding adverts later.

So you can argue that any future such app he makes will benefit from the publicity created by the initial release, and is therefore tainted by it.

(Again - I'm not saying this is right, just why there is an argument)

Do you think if they took him to court with the new app as it became, they'd have a case? I don't.

I think they achieved their aim though, he beat them to market and they scared him into pulling it to buy them more time. I guarantee if he drops an identical app to the remake, after they release theirs, they won't bat an eye lid. 

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Do you think if they took him to court with the new app as it became, they'd have a case? I don't.

I think they achieved their aim though, he beat them to market and they scared him into pulling it to buy them more time. I guarantee if he drops an identical app to the remake, after they release theirs, they won't bat an eye lid. 

If he just replaced the old app with the new app without the branding (so your phone would update to the new one) then there'd definitely be a case as he'd have acquired customers deceptively.

If it was a totally different app everyone had to go download separately, it'd be much harder to make the argument - you'd have to prove that people got the original app because they thought it was official, and then only got the new one because of liking that app and wanting to keep using it, so seeking it out. 

As an analogy, imagine I launched a book series and called it "the official sequel to Harry Potter" and said it was an officially endorsed follow-up. I used that to get a whole bunch of media interviews, got my name and face out there, sent out review copies and got positive reviews saying "this is a worthy follow-up to Harry Potter" - then obviously I get a Cease and Desist from JK Rowling, so I say "okay, I'll change it" - I remove everything saying Harry Potter and change all the character names... I've still benefitted from that. More people will seek out the changed book that would have done had I just released that version in the first place.

[Alvoram]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

If he just replaced the old app with the new app without the branding (so your phone would update to the new one) then there'd definitely be a case as he'd have acquired customers deceptively.

If it was a totally different app everyone had to go download separately, it'd be much harder to make the argument - you'd have to prove that people got the original app because they thought it was official, and then only got the new one because of liking that app and wanting to keep using it, so seeking it out. 

As an analogy, imagine I launched a book series and called it "the official sequel to Harry Potter" and said it was an officially endorsed follow-up. I used that to get a whole bunch of media interviews, got my name and face out there, sent out review copies and got positive reviews saying "this is a worthy follow-up to Harry Potter" - then obviously I get a Cease and Desist from JK Rowling, so I say "okay, I'll change it" - I remove everything saying Harry Potter and change all the character names... I've still benefitted from that. More people will seek out the changed book that would have done had I just released that version in the first place.

Yes I fully get your point, and I agree it's probably the thinking behind perusing it. But legally speaking, as far as I am aware, there is nothing enforceable in the law that would allow them to continue going after the new book once they've ceased using JK's trademarks. It happens all the time, scenes cut from movies, lyrics cut from songs, names changed etc etc, usually doesn't mean the whole works has to go.

They could pursue a case in court against the original offence, but as far as I am aware, and I am just your average joe, they waived that right when sending the cease and desist, so long as the cease and desist was acted upon in the timeframe set out.

Anyway... Legal or not, this is disgusting, and typical of how big business runs the country, I hate it. 

[faymondo]

1 hour ago, Alvoram said:

I think that's clutching... Not you, I mean them if it's true. They have a long history of not protecting that, clashfinder, various media outlets, etc etc. If they've no history of protecting it, they have no legs to stand on. Plus it's information that is very much in the public domain. Finally there is no 'creative' aspect to a list of set times, needed to protect it. 

Football fixtures were excluded from copyright protection by the EUCJ/CJEU for that very last reason. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17218968

I never knew that. Just always remember the wording under fixtures and thought it mad you could copyright fixtures. 

Everyday a learning day. 

[DeanoL]

7 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Yes I fully get your point, and I agree it's probably the thinking behind perusing it. But legally speaking, as far as I am aware, there is nothing enforceable in the law that would allow them to continue going after the new book once they've ceased using JK's trademarks. It happens all the time, scenes cut from movies, lyrics cut from songs, names changed etc etc, usually doesn't mean the whole works has to go.

Each of those normally comes with a settlement payment to the original rights holder in recognition of the benefit they received though I think.

[Alvoram]

6 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Each of those normally comes with a settlement payment to the original rights holder in recognition of the benefit they received though I think.

Isn’t that to continue using the asset rather than cut / change / censor it? 

[leonaves]

Hope we all boycott and review-bomb the new app over this. f**kers.

[Barneym]

1 minute ago, leonaves said:

Hope we all boycott and review-bomb the new app over this. f**kers.

Is it ever actually going to come out?

[Bovla]

Apps been released 

[Slix_Trix]

Its landed on the play store. At long last.

[Barneym]

1 minute ago, Slix_Trix said:

Its landed on the play store. At long last.

Doesn’t seem to be on App Store for iPhone yet

[Slix_Trix]

I just installed it for Android. Not sure of the App* Store status. I assume not far behind

Edited June 9, 2023 by Slix_Trix
Typo

[Bovla]

Just now, Barneym said:

Doesn’t seem to be on App Store for iPhone yet

It is, you might need to search Vodafone and click through to the list of apps by that developer 

[Slix_Trix]

Android up and running

[tigger123]

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/official-glastonbury-app-2023/id6447630969
 

for iPhone 

[Acid Loafers]

Android link if sharing to mates

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.greencopper.glastonbury

[Barneym]

It’s so slow and unresponsive on the iPhone 

[tjfish]

Good to know that if your signal sucks, you can go and get a free "tester" sim card from Vodafone 😄 

[Trunks1993]

wow this app sucks.