Disposable vapes ban

[stuie]

3 hours ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

Like what? Does Michael Eavis store nuclear waste somewhere on site? I'm mainly interested in the things people do that could give me cancer 😅

You won’t get cancer by standing next to someone smoking outside at Glasto for 5 mins 🙈

[philipsteak]

2 hours ago, Johnnyseven said:

I'm not a smoker, never have been, parents used to smoke and I absolutely hated it and I still do but the idea of banning smoking in public places, apart from outside hospitals and schools, is ridiculous. Banning it at festivals is the same. Glastonbury was always an place of freedom, where people could enjoy themselves freely - if someone is near you and starts smoking just move away if it bothers you.

 

I've unfortunately been spending a lot of time visiting a hospital recently. Probably see more people smoking outside the hospital entrances, usually right by a massive no smoking sign, than pretty much anywhere else except outside pubs

[balti-pie]

Its such a pointless bit of legislation. Who has to police the non-smoking on hospital grounds? Cos the Police absolutely won't. It just means security guards will get abused by people smoking in car parks. I'd go for the 'you're a fire risk, so i'm chucking a bucket of water at you to mitigate this risk' approach with smokers near me, ill be honest 😁 you all stink, its revolting. Vapes are almost more annoying, cos its blueberry arse cream flavour or whatever, it all smells dreadful. Find better vices ffs! 

[gfa]

On 11/10/2024 at 1:12 PM, Alvoram said:

Those refillable, rechargeable ones aren't too bad, if people are throwing them away then that says more about them. Like they have way too much money and not enough brain cells.

Why would you want to pay £6-20 for a new battery kit when you can just replace the tank on top for around £1.50? (Packs of two are 2 packs (4 tanks) for £6 at our local Applegreen garage, probably even cheaper elsewhere.) Or better yet, refill the tank. 

I don't use them, I still have the same proper kit I spoke of earlier in this thread, vaping costs me around 50p per day or less... But I'd much rather people use them than fully disposables, if they find them more manageable than a full mod kit. 

There's a special place in hell for the person that invented disposables. They took really good, established, and fairly environmentally friendly tech, and made it just about as harmful to the environment as you could have done. w*nkers. 

Did you know that the batteries, they use in disposables, are actually rechargeable anyway? This guy's collecting them and using them for allsorts, such as this ebike battery!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVp9T8f_W4 👏

They aren't actually refillable.

 

They are advertised as such, but aren't meant to be refilled in practice. They basically are just 10ml of juice and a battery not big enough to use all of it so it needs 1-2 charges to get through it

[Alvoram]

2 minutes ago, gfa said:

They aren't actually refillable.

 

They are advertised as such, but aren't meant to be refilled in practice. They basically are just 10ml of juice and a battery not big enough to use all of it so it needs 1-2 charges to get through it

I've some of the Elfbar Pro's, they're very much refillable. You're 'supposed' to replace the tank on top with one of their own pre filled tanks, but even they can be refilled a few times until the atomiser is burnt out, it just takes a fair amount of effort and knowhow. 

The ones that you describe are not refillable, and I 'think' they'll be included in the ban next year. 🙂 

[Homersexual]

20 hours ago, Talcroft said:

 

I dunno, it's definitely having a moment: 

 

Is smoking making a comeback?

Well that's disheartening.

[homesick]

3 hours ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

Well, if you're bringing up public transport, it's a lot nicer now that smoking is banned on it. If you have a habit/addiction that is gradually being banned from all public places there's got to be a part of you that knows you're on the wrong side of the argument (and probably why you are being so precious about the few places you can still annoy people in public).

 

Most smokers are considerate now, and thankfully the few that aren't considerate are dinosaurs that we'll see the back of soon 🥳

Not precious, and not an addiction or even massively a habit. It's enjoyable, it enhances the festival experience for myself and many others. 

 

And I assume if you are of the opinion that anything that is banned is wrong, you've never indulged in any illegal narcotics? 

I notice you avoided my point about going near the stone circle. Funny that

[stuie]

1 hour ago, balti-pie said:

Its such a pointless bit of legislation. Who has to police the non-smoking on hospital grounds? Cos the Police absolutely won't. It just means security guards will get abused by people smoking in car parks. I'd go for the 'you're a fire risk, so i'm chucking a bucket of water at you to mitigate this risk' approach with smokers near me, ill be honest 😁 you all stink, its revolting. Vapes are almost more annoying, cos its blueberry arse cream flavour or whatever, it all smells dreadful. Find better vices ffs! 

 

Doesn't sound very nice to be honest.  Someone's been stuck in hospital for days and manages to make it outside for the mild relief of a smoke and you throw a bucket of water at them?  You'd get something in return, that's for sure. 

[balti-pie]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

 

Doesn't sound very nice to be honest.  Someone's been stuck in hospital for days and manages to make it outside for the mild relief of a smoke and you throw a bucket of water at them?  You'd get something in return, that's for sure. 

That’s robust situational management 

[Joey Peeps]

I'm a non-smoker but other than finding the smell distasteful is there any real risk when standing outside in the vicinity of someone having a fag or spliff at a festival? Walking in a built-up area of any town or city is surely more harmful? 

[A Particular Grey Chihuahu]

5 hours ago, stuie said:

You won’t get cancer by standing next to someone smoking outside at Glasto for 5 mins 🙈

 

No. Who said that? Because it wasn't me. It takes years of being around disrespectful a-holes for that to happen. But why would you be one of those a-holes in life? Many people have died and will die from second hand smoking. It would be strange to deny that. It's an accumulation thing.

 

2 hours ago, homesick said:

Not precious, and not an addiction or even massively a habit. It's enjoyable, it enhances the festival experience for myself and many others. 

 

And I assume if you are of the opinion that anything that is banned is wrong, you've never indulged in any illegal narcotics? 

I notice you avoided my point about going near the stone circle. Funny that

 

My opinion is that I don't care if someone chooses to do something that harms only themselves (I'll even forget all the tax we have to pay for their inevitable treatments).  And I've never been to the stone circle. Don't know what you're on about with that one.

[stuie]

22 minutes ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

No. Who said that? Because it wasn't me. It takes years of being around disrespectful a-holes for that to happen. But why would you be one of those a-holes in life? Many people have died and will die from second hand smoking. It would be strange to deny that. It's an accumulation thing.

Firstly, I’m not an a-hole but if I want to stand outside in the open air at a festival and smoke, I will do. Safe in the knowledge I’ve not caused you cancer.  

[Alvoram]

1 hour ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

(I'll even forget all the tax we have to pay for their inevitable treatments)

Not really as relevant these days as it once was, now that more people are vaping and less smoking

 

 

They had to include 'lost productivity' for smoking, to get it anywhere near... 🤣

We'll not get into how these things also lead to more 3rd party harm than smoking ever did either, or how badly the people using them smell... 🙈🤣

(For the record, I repeat, I have no issue with drinking or anything else, I run a pub, and have had my fun in the past, my issue here is with the absolute hypocrisy on display.) 

Edited Tuesday at 08:10 PM by Alvoram

[A Particular Grey Chihuahu]

1 hour ago, Alvoram said:

Not really as relevant these days as it once was, now that more people are vaping and less smoking

 

 

They had to include 'lost productivity' for smoking, to get it anywhere near... 🤣

We'll not get into how these things also lead to more 3rd party harm than smoking ever did either, or how badly the people using them smell... 🙈🤣

(For the record, I repeat, I have no issue with drinking or anything else, I run a pub, and have had my fun in the past, my issue here is with the absolute hypocrisy on display.) 

 

Yes, but you understand that's because people stopped smoking, yeah? And the cost will keep going down because of the legislation until eventually, it won't cost society anything.

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Firstly, I’m not an a-hole but if I want to stand outside in the open air at a festival and smoke, I will do. Safe in the knowledge I’ve not caused you cancer.  

 

Well, I don't know if you're an inconsiderate smoker or not, so I wouldn't call you an a-hole. But I'm guessing most smokers have said they smoked safe in the knowledge they haven't given anyone cancer. And yet many people have died from second-hand smoking. So was nobody responsible, or was everyone responsible?

[SticklinchJoe]

@A Particular Grey Chihuahu Don't waste your time with this argument. Society is on your side, and you're up against the delusional fervour of addiction. You've already won at life. 

[stuie]

53 minutes ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

Yes, but you understand that's because people stopped smoking, yeah? And the cost will keep going down because of the legislation until eventually, it won't cost society anything.

 

Well, I don't know if you're an inconsiderate smoker or not, so I wouldn't call you an a-hole. But I'm guessing most smokers have said they smoked safe in the knowledge they haven't given anyone cancer. And yet many people have died from second-hand smoking. So was nobody responsible, or was everyone responsible?

Have you got the stats on deaths caused by second hand smoke in the open air? 
 

I’d like to know the significance of what you’re going on about before I decide if nobody or everyone is responsible. 

 

 

[stuie]

4 minutes ago, SticklinchJoe said:

@A Particular Grey Chihuahu Don't waste your time with this argument. Society is on your side, and you're up against the delusional fervour of addiction. You've already won at life. 

Apart from they’re discussing it with 2 non smokers and one part time festival smoker. So not really that fervent.
 

I’m just pointing out there’s a difference between actual risk and something you don’t like / find unpleasant. 

[A Particular Grey Chihuahu]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

Have you got the stats on deaths caused by second hand smoke in the open air? 
 

I’d like to know the significance of what you’re going on about before I decide if nobody or everyone is responsible. 

 

 

 

You keep adding the "open air" caveat to give yourself a place to hide in the debate. I know when I'm breathing in smoke, so it becomes irrelevant at that point. 

 

Here are the stats you asked for. Pretty comprehensive:

 

Gemini was just updated.  See update

Conversation with Gemini

 

UK second hand smoking statistics

 

Show drafts

 

 

 

 

 

Secondhand smoke (SHS), also known as passive smoking, is a serious health risk. In the UK, it's estimated to cause around 2,700 deaths in people aged 20-63 and a further 8,000 deaths a year among people aged 65 years and older.  

 

 

 

 

Here are some key statistics about secondhand smoke in the UK:

• Deaths: SHS causes around 10,700 deaths per year in the UK.
• Children: Over 20,000 cases of lower respiratory tract infection, 120,000 cases of middle ear disease, at least 22,000 new cases of wheeze and asthma, 200 cases of bacterial meningitis, and 40 sudden infant deaths are attributed to children's exposure to SHS each year.  
   

   

   
• Adults: SHS increases the risk of lung cancer by 20-30% and coronary heart disease by 23-35% in non-smokers.  
   
• Healthcare impact: Over 300,000 UK GP consultations and 9,500 hospital admissions in children are recorded each year due to SHS.  
   

It's important to note that there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Even brief exposure can be harmful, especially for children, pregnant women, and people with existing health conditions.  

 

 

 

I should've just posted that to begin with, but I'm sure you'll find a way around it... 🙄

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:43 PM by A Particular Grey Chihuahu

[Alvoram]

2 hours ago, SticklinchJoe said:

@A Particular Grey Chihuahu Don't waste your time with this argument. Society is on your side, and you're up against the delusional fervour of addiction. You've already won at life. 

Strange comment, I don't think any party in this conversation actually smokes tobacco... The last time I even put my mouth to a cigarette was 13 years ago, in a club's smoking area. 

The fact is, I'm pro choice in most things, unless what you're doing is significantly harming somebody else, or the planet (and thus everybody else) then knock yourself out. Why should I or anybody else interfere. 
 

3 hours ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

Yes, but you understand that's because people stopped smoking, yeah? And the cost will keep going down because of the legislation until eventually, it won't cost society anything.

I'm not sure it was ever more costly than alcohol to be honest. But if that is the case, it's in no small part thanks to vaping. So why are people attacking vaping too? 

There's very little evidence of significant harm from passive smoking outdoors. There's definitely no evidence of harm from passive vaping outdoors. Given that a) it's considerably healthier for the person actually vaping than smoking, and b) it's the same tech and ingredients approved for use in smoke and haze machines indoors, but on a much much smaller scale, odds are there never will be. 

I can understand concerns with smoking, I don't agree with them, but I can at least understand them. When it comes to vaping, it's simply a case of some people don't like it, and because it's not 'their chosen vice,' they don't want other people doing it... Thankfully most people don't think like that, or we'd be banning absolutely everything. The most persistent and consistent (and also the most ridiculous) reason has been the sweet smells... Next up, banning perfumes / aftershaves I don't like the smell of. 🙄

Man I miss the days of coming home from the pub smelling like an ashtray, despite not smoking... These days all I get to go home smelling like is strawberry ice cream and sometimes blueberry. 😞 

[Jamescurtiz]

2 hours ago, Alvoram said:

Man I miss the days of coming home from the pub smelling like an ashtray, despite not smoking... These days all I get to go home smelling like is strawberry ice cream and sometimes blueberry.

I got scolded a lot by my wife because of smelling like Ashtray.🤣

[CharlotteB]

7 hours ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

You keep adding the "open air" caveat to give yourself a place to hide in the debate. I know when I'm breathing in smoke, so it becomes irrelevant at that point. 

 

Here are the stats you asked for. Pretty comprehensive:

 

Gemini was just updated.  See update

Conversation with Gemini

 

UK second hand smoking statistics

 

Show drafts

 

 

 

 

 

Secondhand smoke (SHS), also known as passive smoking, is a serious health risk. In the UK, it's estimated to cause around 2,700 deaths in people aged 20-63 and a further 8,000 deaths a year among people aged 65 years and older.  

 

 

 

 

Here are some key statistics about secondhand smoke in the UK:

• Deaths: SHS causes around 10,700 deaths per year in the UK.
• Children: Over 20,000 cases of lower respiratory tract infection, 120,000 cases of middle ear disease, at least 22,000 new cases of wheeze and asthma, 200 cases of bacterial meningitis, and 40 sudden infant deaths are attributed to children's exposure to SHS each year.  
   

   

   
• Adults: SHS increases the risk of lung cancer by 20-30% and coronary heart disease by 23-35% in non-smokers.  
   
• Healthcare impact: Over 300,000 UK GP consultations and 9,500 hospital admissions in children are recorded each year due to SHS.  
   

It's important to note that there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Even brief exposure can be harmful, especially for children, pregnant women, and people with existing health conditions.  

 

 

 

I should've just posted that to begin with, but I'm sure you'll find a way around it... 🙄

 

 

That was a mic drop moment right there 😂🤣😂🤣 there's no serious comeback to that, is there? 🎤

[MilkyJoe]

57 minutes ago, CharlotteB said:

 

That was a mic drop moment right there 😂🤣😂🤣 there's no serious comeback to that, is there? 🎤

Playing devils advocate for a moment it wasn't really as the enquiry regarded stats concerning second hand smoke in open air.

 

The truth is that most of the (limited) studies conducted relate mostly to outdoor areas where smokers gather, beer gardens, smoking areas in pubs, hospitals etc. and relate to particulate matter in the air which would be far cry from the discussion of second hand smoke at a music festival.

 

In my opinion which is based on no scientific evidence whatsoever I would say that unless you were stood within a few inches of a heavy smoker you would be far more likely to suffer adverse health effects from the dust and particulate matter stirred up by 150,000 people walking about.

[CharlotteB]

41 minutes ago, MilkyJoe said:

Playing devils advocate for a moment it wasn't really as the enquiry regarded stats concerning second hand smoke in open air.

 

The truth is that most of the (limited) studies conducted relate mostly to outdoor areas where smokers gather, beer gardens, smoking areas in pubs, hospitals etc. and relate to particulate matter in the air which would be far cry from the discussion of second hand smoke at a music festival.

 

In my opinion which is based on no scientific evidence whatsoever I would say that unless you were stood within a few inches of a heavy smoker you would be far more likely to suffer adverse health effects from the dust and particulate matter stirred up by 150,000 people walking about.

 

Having known people with actual underlying health conditions, I disagree. In a crowd, especially on a still day, the smoke lingers, and can seriously affect others. It's worse indoors, but outdoors can be just as bad in the wrong conditions. "No safe level of exposure" says it all imo.

[stuie]

11 hours ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

You keep adding the "open air" caveat to give yourself a place to hide in the debate. I know when I'm breathing in smoke, so it becomes irrelevant at that point. 

 

Here are the stats you asked for. Pretty comprehensive:

 

Gemini was just updated.  See update

Conversation with Gemini

 

UK second hand smoking statistics

 

Show drafts

 

 

 

 

 

Secondhand smoke (SHS), also known as passive smoking, is a serious health risk. In the UK, it's estimated to cause around 2,700 deaths in people aged 20-63 and a further 8,000 deaths a year among people aged 65 years and older.  

 

 

 

 

Here are some key statistics about secondhand smoke in the UK:

• Deaths: SHS causes around 10,700 deaths per year in the UK.
• Children: Over 20,000 cases of lower respiratory tract infection, 120,000 cases of middle ear disease, at least 22,000 new cases of wheeze and asthma, 200 cases of bacterial meningitis, and 40 sudden infant deaths are attributed to children's exposure to SHS each year.  
   

   

   
• Adults: SHS increases the risk of lung cancer by 20-30% and coronary heart disease by 23-35% in non-smokers.  
   
• Healthcare impact: Over 300,000 UK GP consultations and 9,500 hospital admissions in children are recorded each year due to SHS.  
   

It's important to note that there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Even brief exposure can be harmful, especially for children, pregnant women, and people with existing health conditions.  

 

 

 

I should've just posted that to begin with, but I'm sure you'll find a way around it... 🙄

 

Thanks for the AI but the answer to my question was no, you haven't got the stats on deaths caused by second hand smoke in the open air. 

 

I can't be bothered with this anymore, I've said all along that I barely smoke and i strongly disagree with exposing people to second hand smoke, especially children.  However, I maintain that you're more at risk from traffic and other pollutants than walking past someone having a cigarette in the open air.

 

Have a good day. 

 

[DeanoL]

9 hours ago, Alvoram said:

I can understand concerns with smoking, I don't agree with them, but I can at least understand them. When it comes to vaping, it's simply a case of some people don't like it, and because it's not 'their chosen vice,' they don't want other people doing it... Thankfully most people don't think like that, or we'd be banning absolutely everything. The most persistent and consistent (and also the most ridiculous) reason has been the sweet smells... Next up, banning perfumes / aftershaves I don't like the smell of. 🙄
 

You probably wouldn't enjoy having perfume sprayed right next to you on a regular basis by other people. Nor would I.

I don't think smoking and vaping should be banned, but the attitude you get with some people of "I can't possibly understand what people's problem is" is equally baffling to me. It's also one of those things where the vapor could have just been made odourless but wasn't, so feels weirdly aggressive.

 

It's like being stood/sat next to someone who hasn't showered for a week. They stink, it's unpleasant. Obviously we shouldn't make showering compulsory either, but it's worth point out that's how they come across.