Football 2023/24

[charlierc]

I can only presume news that Newcastle are in the process of selling Saint-Maximin to a Saudi club is going to be earning us a critical kicking. Though the £30million price-tag I saw feels like market rate for him. If we were selling the "dud squad" of Hayden, Fraser and Hendrick to Saudi clubs for £25million each, maybe then we'd be deserving of strong questioning.

I've also been bemused by some Newcastle fans insisting this can only be a downgrade to offload ASM for Harvey Barnes. But then I like Barnes, and am aware he can play both flanks if need be, so maybe I'm not one who needs to be won over.

[charlierc]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:03 AM, zahidf said:

Yuck

Good day with Rich footballers and good lawyers

 

 

Yeah something does make me feel very uncomfortable about this one. Feels like it's a situation representative of a more broad point than just a famous ex-footballer about the legal system and how it treats cases like this.

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Yeah something does make me feel very uncomfortable about this one.this.

me too, its the claims of 'cleared' i'm not comfortable with, the case wasn't heard to a firm conclusion.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

I can only presume news that Newcastle are in the process of selling Saint-Maximin to a Saudi club is going to be earning us a critical kicking. Though the £30million price-tag I saw feels like market rate for him. If we were selling the "dud squad" of Hayden, Fraser and Hendrick to Saudi clubs for £25million each, maybe then we'd be deserving of strong questioning.

I've also been bemused by some Newcastle fans insisting this can only be a downgrade to offload ASM for Harvey Barnes. But then I like Barnes, and am aware he can play both flanks if need be, so maybe I'm not one who needs to be won over.

I kinda like Barnes, but I think given we've got a number of other players being fairly consistent in wide positions, I'd prefer to have the creative inconsistency of ASM. I'm also not convinced he can't get more reliable. It feels more sideways than downgrade to me.

[zahidf]

13 hours ago, charlierc said:

I can only presume news that Newcastle are in the process of selling Saint-Maximin to a Saudi club is going to be earning us a critical kicking. Though the £30million price-tag I saw feels like market rate for him. If we were selling the "dud squad" of Hayden, Fraser and Hendrick to Saudi clubs for £25million each, maybe then we'd be deserving of strong questioning.

I've also been bemused by some Newcastle fans insisting this can only be a downgrade to offload ASM for Harvey Barnes. But then I like Barnes, and am aware he can play both flanks if need be, so maybe I'm not one who needs to be won over.

Well its being 'sold' to Al ahi, who has the same owners as newcastle. 

 

Its a little dodgy, they are just doing it to get around FFP rules

[charlierc]

20 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well its being 'sold' to Al ahi, who has the same owners as newcastle. 

 

Its a little dodgy, they are just doing it to get around FFP rules

I'm aware of the way it looks being far from ideal, much as I'm also aware of other Newcastle fans playing the what-about game where this being done in other instances (i.e. Watford/Udinese, or any of the other clubs the UAE owns with Man City, or the two Red Bull clubs exchanging players).

FIFA/UEFA are way too lax on multi-club ownership imo so of course it's going to be questioned.

Though the irony is the fee I saw discussed for Saint-Maximin of about £30m is what I would expect his market value to be, maybe even slightly less, and I'm surprised no European club wanted to bid for him. I'd heard links with Crystal Palace and Everton, plus would've thought West Ham had a chance as they also wanted Barnes. Milan were also linked before they signed Pulisic.

As I said above, if we were selling a transfer listed player like Jeff Hendrick or Ryan Fraser to Saudi clubs for £40million, I'd agree we were taking the piss. But in this window, with Saudi clubs making similar bids for players all over the Premier League, we are nothing if not going with the flow. But I guess our ownership is going to immediately raise red flags for people.

[charlierc]

12 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I kinda like Barnes, but I think given we've got a number of other players being fairly consistent in wide positions, I'd prefer to have the creative inconsistency of ASM. I'm also not convinced he can't get more reliable. It feels more sideways than downgrade to me.

I mean Barnes scored 13 in 34 for a team relegated last season, making him their top scorer. That's pretty good going, and while injuries didn't help, ASM did only grab the one.

Though I'm aware of the balance issue. Last season our best form seemed to come when we had a Willock/Joelinton axis on the left flank with the two essentially interchanging as the left-winger or left-sided central midfielder, and Barnes primarily being a left-sided player means potentially throwing that out of wack.

[zahidf]

30 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I'm aware of the way it looks being far from ideal, much as I'm also aware of other Newcastle fans playing the what-about game where this being done in other instances (i.e. Watford/Udinese, or any of the other clubs the UAE owns with Man City, or the two Red Bull clubs exchanging players).

FIFA/UEFA are way too lax on multi-club ownership imo so of course it's going to be questioned.

Though the irony is the fee I saw discussed for Saint-Maximin of about £30m is what I would expect his market value to be, maybe even slightly less, and I'm surprised no European club wanted to bid for him. I'd heard links with Crystal Palace and Everton, plus would've thought West Ham had a chance as they also wanted Barnes. Milan were also linked before they signed Pulisic.

As I said above, if we were selling a transfer listed player like Jeff Hendrick or Ryan Fraser to Saudi clubs for £40million, I'd agree we were taking the piss. But in this window, with Saudi clubs making similar bids for players all over the Premier League, we are nothing if not going with the flow. But I guess our ownership is going to immediately raise red flags for people.

I wouldn't be massively surprised if hes loaned back to Newcastle at some point in the year

Its the same ownership, so the transfer fee isnt really relevant. Just moving money around the clubs they own

 

[lost]

What happened to Ismaïla Sarr at Watford? He seemed to be the next big thing 3 years ago constantly being linked with top 6 clubs. Probably a lesson there for players like Barnes that if you don't move the year you go down its possible to stagnate in the championship.

[charlierc]

59 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I wouldn't be massively surprised if hes loaned back to Newcastle at some point in the year

Its the same ownership, so the transfer fee isnt really relevant. Just moving money around the clubs they own

 

I would be tbh - having been publicly made way for Newcastle to bring in the next new talent in his position, feels like he's more likely to end up elsewhere after leaving Saudi.

But as said, I'm surprised other PL clubs haven't gone in for him. Though the wage thing is obviously going to be a running argument for this window, as seen with rumours that Mitrovic wants out at Fulham to join a Saudi club offering huge cash.

[charlierc]

22 minutes ago, lost said:

What happened to Ismaïla Sarr at Watford? He seemed to be the next big thing 3 years ago constantly being linked with top 6 clubs. Probably a lesson there for players like Barnes that if you don't move the year you go down its possible to stagnate in the championship.

Everton and West Ham have both had bids rejected for him. Surprised he stuck it out at Watford in the Champ last season tbh.

[DareToDibble]

9 hours ago, charlierc said:

Though the irony is the fee I saw discussed for Saint-Maximin of about £30m is what I would expect his market value to be, maybe even slightly less, and I'm surprised no European club wanted to bid for him. I'd heard links with Crystal Palace and Everton, plus would've thought West Ham had a chance as they also wanted Barnes. Milan were also linked before they signed Pulisic.

Agree with this, £30mil in todays market is great value. How old is he? He's one of those that always seemed to be great when he played against us. 

[charlierc]

14 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

Agree with this, £30mil in todays market is great value. How old is he? He's one of those that always seemed to be great when he played against us. 

ASM turned 26 earlier this year, with the season just completed being his fourth at Newcastle.

I'm kinda surprised tbf given a few other PL clubs wanted wingers/wide-midfielders and we were clearly OK offloading him that nobody else in the top 20 lodged a cheeky bid. Even if wages will obviously be a different equation.

[zahidf]

Well

[charlierc]

I watched the opening game for England at the Women's World Cup earlier and Haiti did hold their own pretty well. England's attack is also a bit of a concern imo - 1 goal in 4 games, and that due to a VAR penalty in this game to end a 3 game goal drought.

Think you'd take the win, but still work to do.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Well

Eh. I'm aware there's been criticism of our ownership's funding since the moment they arrived. So I'm not exactly unsurprised about others whining.

Personally I think £30million for a 26-year-old with 4 years of PL experience signed for £16million in 2019 is about right in the ludicrously hyper-inflated market that is modern football transfers and I can see why we might push back and go "Hang on, other clubs are raking in big fees from Saudi clubs for their discards and other clubs engage in multi-club shenanigans". If we were getting a £150million fee, I think they'd have a case, and given the rumour is a Saudi club is potentially bidding £200million for Mbappe, they do have that kinda cash.

But it is what it is. Hell, reports suggest Southampton want £50million for Newcastle target Tino Livramento, which is quite the extreme fee for a player that, while talented, is just coming back from a whole year injured.

[pink_triangle]

22 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I watched the opening game for England at the Women's World Cup earlier and Haiti did hold their own pretty well. England's attack is also a bit of a concern imo - 1 goal in 4 games, and that due to a VAR penalty in this game to end a 3 game goal drought.

Think you'd take the win, but still work to do.

I am enjoying the World Cup , even though the time of games means mainly highlights.  I found it really strange some on social media almost using it as a badge of honour not watching it and talking about it being rammed down their throat!

[Ryan1984]

55 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I am enjoying the World Cup , even though the time of games means mainly highlights.  I found it really strange some on social media almost using it as a badge of honour not watching it and talking about it being rammed down their throat!

Sadly there’s still so much misogyny around… I’m disappointed they’ve hidden away the highlights show on BBC Three at 7pm. Deserves a peak time on a major channel. 

[zahidf]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:21 PM, lost said:

What happened to Ismaïla Sarr at Watford? He seemed to be the next big thing 3 years ago constantly being linked with top 6 clubs. Probably a lesson there for players like Barnes that if you don't move the year you go down its possible to stagnate in the championship.

 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

 

Presuming this is related...

 

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I am enjoying the World Cup , even though the time of games means mainly highlights.  I found it really strange some on social media almost using it as a badge of honour not watching it and talking about it being rammed down their throat!

It is weird how a lot of people do seem to make it a virtue of being so ostentatiously contrarian. Reminds me of those who spent the first half of the men's Euros 2 years ago whining about England players taking the knee pre-game. But these things take time, and clearly, we're still working on a journey to acceptance thanks to the FA's idiotic decision to effectively ban women's football for 50 years.

One of my favourite football memories in the last year, maybe even ever, was being at the Women's Euros final when England won last year, so as much as I don't watch as much women's football as I really should, the standard shown in the bits I have seen is of great quality play. Even if England this year look like they're still adapting to injury absences.

[thetime]

23 hours ago, charlierc said:

Eh. I'm aware there's been criticism of our ownership's funding since the moment they arrived. So I'm not exactly unsurprised about others whining.

Personally I think £30million for a 26-year-old with 4 years of PL experience signed for £16million in 2019 is about right in the ludicrously hyper-inflated market that is modern football transfers and I can see why we might push back and go "Hang on, other clubs are raking in big fees from Saudi clubs for their discards and other clubs engage in multi-club shenanigans". If we were getting a £150million fee, I think they'd have a case, and given the rumour is a Saudi club is potentially bidding £200million for Mbappe, they do have that kinda cash.

But it is what it is. Hell, reports suggest Southampton want £50million for Newcastle target Tino Livramento, which is quite the extreme fee for a player that, while talented, is just coming back from a whole year injured.

I dont think it's whining about the ownership to be honest, because of FFP Newcastle will struggle to do a city or Chelsea. Even now Newcastle are struggling with FFP rules, balancing the books is not easy with FFP. Especially at the level Newcastle are currently at.

It's just very suspect, the deal between the 2 clubs with very close links to each other. It certainly implies it isn't a straight forward deal, with 100% clarity. 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by thetime

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, charlierc said:

But these things take time, and clearly, we're still working on a journey to acceptance thanks to the FA's idiotic decision to effectively ban women's football for 50 years.

5 years ago I had never watched a whole women’s match, watched a few games in the last Euros and this time I’m watching highlights of most games and starting to get to know a few of the players. I imagine others are in a similar position to me and the direction of travel is only going one way.

In the men’s game I would never (being Welsh) support England, but happy for the women’s team to do well and think it would ultimately benefit girls in wales as well.

While many have focused on the money Wrexham have spent since their “Hollywood “ takeover, what isn’t reported is how they have also invested and really got behind the women’s team. I am looking forward to watching a few games this season.

 

[charlierc]

So the rumour is this Saudi club is willing to spend a world record transfer fee on Mbappe, hand him such a fortune, then let him go to Real Madrid on a free in a year's time, which all sounds kinda nuts.

[charlierc]

On 7/23/2023 at 4:39 PM, thetime said:

I dont think it's whining about the ownership to be honest, because of FFP Newcastle will struggle to do a city or Chelsea. Even now Newcastle are struggling with FFP rules, balancing the books is not easy with FFP. Especially at the level Newcastle are currently at.

It's just very suspect, the deal between the 2 clubs with very close links to each other. It certainly implies it isn't a straight forward deal, with 100% clarity. 

 

I accept we are going to get more questions for anything we try with Saudi clubs than others. Chelsea were strongly questioned about this when it was implied they had connections to the PIF through their owners that have since been disproven, but Newcastle's outright PIF presence attracts questions.

At the end of the day, as said above, I think 30 million Euro for ASM is fair value and is certainly what I'd expect if a club with PL or Champions League money was asking to buy him, and as also said, I think it would be more of a pisstake if we were trying to get 50 million Euro for players we were actively trying to sell like Ryan Fraser or Jeff Hendrick. I'm aware the Premier League will vet this deal, but I've not seen comments yet that make me think they'll block it.