Football 2023/24

[thetime]

43 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I was surprised Howe said in yesterday's pre-game presser that they might be able to play Tonali in this one. But apparently not.

Squad depth is a concern - Barnes was already out with an injury suffered at Sheffield United, Anderson did his back before the Dortmund game, Murphy and Isak got injured during the Dortmund game, and then Tonali verdict. The bench today had 2 goalkeepers and no strikers.

A point tbf is more than Man City got at Wolves.

I thought the story was that Tonali was betting on his own team while playing for AC Milan, as part of a scandal where a number of players in Italy were caught gambling on illegal sites including on football games.

It's one thing people fixated on him getting applauded off after last week's Palace game while surrounded by billboards for 3 different gambling firms, but this seems to be a problem in general. Hell, while I gather a lot of his bets came when he was at Newcastle, Toney plays for a team sponsored by a gambling firm owned by a professional gambler, while Forest had a player who was very lucky not to get a ban for similar offences.

I'm sure it's not gambling that's the problem, these footballers know the rules. 

They got caught, pay the penalty.

I'm also sure they are not addicted, perhaps claiming addiction to get a lighter suspension. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by thetime

[thetime]

Crazy that Bellingham at 20, is ripping it up at the biggest and most pressured football club in world football.

[kaosmark2]

4 hours ago, thetime said:

Bit early to comment on incorrect penalty decisions. Wolves are getting the very rough end of the VAR stick this season.

Lol yeah. I'm mostly inclined to wind up Liverpool fans though.

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

I was surprised Howe said in yesterday's pre-game presser that they might be able to play Tonali in this one. But apparently not.

Squad depth is a concern - Barnes was already out with an injury suffered at Sheffield United, Anderson did his back before the Dortmund game, Murphy and Isak got injured during the Dortmund game, and then Tonali verdict. The bench today had 2 goalkeepers and no strikers.

A point tbf is more than Man City got at Wolves.

I thought the story was that Tonali was betting on his own team while playing for AC Milan, as part of a scandal where a number of players in Italy were caught gambling on illegal sites including on football games.

It's one thing people fixated on him getting applauded off after last week's Palace game while surrounded by billboards for 3 different gambling firms, but this seems to be a problem in general. Hell, while I gather a lot of his bets came when he was at Newcastle, Toney plays for a team sponsored by a gambling firm owned by a professional gambler, while Forest had a player who was very lucky not to get a ban for similar offences.

Yeah, squad depth isn't surprising as an issue. I thought we recruited well but were potentially a midfielder light. Anderson stepping up I'd thought solved that but this is a very common time for a team to get a load of injuries. 

[thetime]

10 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Lol yeah. I'm mostly inclined to wind up Liverpool fans though.

Always a joy. 😆

[charlierc]

10 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yeah, squad depth isn't surprising as an issue. I thought we recruited well but were potentially a midfielder light. Anderson stepping up I'd thought solved that but this is a very common time for a team to get a load of injuries. 

Going into this season the campaign I was hoping we'd learnt from was 2012/13. The 5th in 2011/12 was helped by having relatively few injuries but the extra Europa League games and a few injuries, particularly in midfield, suddenly left us in a bit of a hole in that campaign and we were in genuine relegation peril by the end of it. So I was hoping we'd have better depth management but sure enough, a few injuries all at once and suddenly the depth has gone. Well except in defence as there were 5 on yesterday's bench.

I thought we'd recruited well but Barnes is out for a while, Tonali's well-documented absence is now starting and Livramento/Hall don't seem to be getting a look-in despite Trippier and Burn being arguably overworked. So it is a case of just hoping we don't push some players too far now.

Edited October 29, 2023 by charlierc

[charlierc]

12 hours ago, thetime said:

I'm sure it's not gambling that's the problem, these footballers know the rules. 

They got caught, pay the penalty.

I'm also sure they are not addicted, perhaps claiming addiction to get a lighter suspension. 

Well I'm aware it's not a new thing. There's been cases going all the way back to the 90s - Keith Gillespie was very open about it on a recent-ish documentary, while Paul Merson has also talked about it at length. Even that weird case at Sutton in the FA Cup involving a reserve goalkeeper eating a pie that it transpired was done to order for a bet on a now-defunct bookies.

[thetime]

3 hours ago, charlierc said:

Well I'm aware it's not a new thing. There's been cases going all the way back to the 90s - Keith Gillespie was very open about it on a recent-ish documentary, while Paul Merson has also talked about it at length. Even that weird case at Sutton in the FA Cup involving a reserve goalkeeper eating a pie that it transpired was done to order for a bet on a now-defunct bookies.

I'm more inclined to believe tonali and toney are going through addiction counselling, to get a lighter ban. Rather than believing they have an addiction issue. 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

I'm more inclined to believe tonali and toney are going through addiction counselling, to get a lighter ban. Rather than believing they have an addiction issue. 

I'd be inclined to say both.

[balti-pie]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:22 PM, charlierc said:

There's an orange one of similar front design that Puma came up with a few years back that was similarly crap.

Curiously I had a neutral fan tell me they like this one.

The best Newcastle kit in recent years was that lovely tropical Solero one that looked like eleven giant ice lollies. Bring it back! 

[charlierc]

3 hours ago, balti-pie said:

The best Newcastle kit in recent years was that lovely tropical Solero one that looked like eleven giant ice lollies. Bring it back! 

This the famous light yellow/dark yellow stripe number from 2009/10? I actually got that one.

Last year that we had adidas as kit-maker. Maybe they'll bring it back when they take the Newcastle kit contract back from Castore for next season.

[balti-pie]

3 hours ago, charlierc said:

This the famous light yellow/dark yellow stripe number from 2009/10? I actually got that one.

Last year that we had adidas as kit-maker. Maybe they'll bring it back when they take the Newcastle kit contract back from Castore for next season.

That’s the very one. I liked it, it was amusing and also really good for colour clashes - I think away kits should be a bit strange. I’m not a huge one for buying kits unless they’re absolute bangers and the only spurs shirts in recent years even vaguely worth considering have been the more outlandish aways - the weirdo galaxy/marbled one from a couple of years ago was good, but the majority of Nike kits are bollocks identikit nonsense. I want Under Armour back, those kits were so much better it’s ridiculous, the actual quality of the merch was great. I’m told the Castore stuff is dreadful quality, it’s put me off getting the latest Ireland kit even though I like the design  

[charlierc]

Clearly FIFA's stage-management of creating a situation for 2034 where European, African and North/South American bidders were barred has got the client their ticket to success.

[charlierc]

20 hours ago, balti-pie said:

That’s the very one. I liked it, it was amusing and also really good for colour clashes - I think away kits should be a bit strange. I’m not a huge one for buying kits unless they’re absolute bangers and the only spurs shirts in recent years even vaguely worth considering have been the more outlandish aways - the weirdo galaxy/marbled one from a couple of years ago was good, but the majority of Nike kits are bollocks identikit nonsense. I want Under Armour back, those kits were so much better it’s ridiculous, the actual quality of the merch was great. I’m told the Castore stuff is dreadful quality, it’s put me off getting the latest Ireland kit even though I like the design  

I remember the strange marbled galaxy one and that I think there was also a slightly weird grey/purple third kit at the same time. If nothing else at least those are more memorable than Spurs kits that are just a plain white shirt with Nike, Spurs and sponsor logos.

[lost]

13 hours ago, charlierc said:

Clearly FIFA's stage-management of creating a situation for 2034 where European, African and North/South American bidders were barred has got the client their ticket to success.

Seen suggestions elsewhere its a powerplay from FIFA to wrestle the club game away from UEFA with the help of Saudi money. Champions league to be replaced with a world league including Saudi clubs.

The champions league apparently raises nearly three times as much money as the world cup.

[kaosmark2]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:37 PM, charlierc said:

Clearly FIFA's stage-management of creating a situation for 2034 where European, African and North/South American bidders were barred has got the client their ticket to success.

This is nearly as embarrassing as Man U.

[thetime]

52 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

This is nearly as embarrassing as Man U.

The cycle of utd post fergie, rinse and repeat. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

The cycle of utd post fergie, rinse and repeat. 

Get a new manager, make a load of big money signings, then the fans turn on the manager 2nd season and the players just keep in the same sh*tty cycle?

I actually think Ten Hag has been one of the better managers in that period, albeit placing too much weight on players he's familiar with from Ajax in his signings.

Until someone making a decision at that club is bigger than the players, the cycle will keep going. Same as PSG.

[thetime]

5 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Get a new manager, make a load of big money signings, then the fans turn on the manager 2nd season and the players just keep in the same sh*tty cycle?

 

It's more about players turning on the manager, than fans. 

[charlierc]

9 hours ago, thetime said:

The cycle of utd post fergie, rinse and repeat. 

It's kinda remarkable how quickly they've ended up back where they've started. And this even in a game yesterday where Man U made 7 changes and the Mags made 8 (even if one of those who came in got injured after 90 seconds).

Certainly there's a lot of questions to ask about the transfer policy since ten Hag arrived, or ask if this is merely the worse of MUFC's two sides coming through this year - last season they seemed to be capable of both exceptional and awful performances. Though I can guess that it coming so soon on the back of the Manchester Derby collapse doesn't help.

[charlierc]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:31 AM, lost said:

Seen suggestions elsewhere its a powerplay from FIFA to wrestle the club game away from UEFA with the help of Saudi money. Champions league to be replaced with a world league including Saudi clubs.

The champions league apparently raises nearly three times as much money as the world cup.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a FIFA v UEFA tension over money given the explosion in popularity over the last 30 years of European club football. We've seen this with debates over whether the World Cup should be held every two years, or with rumours 4/5 years ago that Saudi cash was behind FIFA's Club World Cup attempts.

[thetime]

7 hours ago, charlierc said:

It's kinda remarkable how quickly they've ended up back where they've started. And this even in a game yesterday where Man U made 7 changes and the Mags made 8 (even if one of those who came in got injured after 90 seconds).

Certainly there's a lot of questions to ask about the transfer policy since ten Hag arrived, or ask if this is merely the worse of MUFC's two sides coming through this year - last season they seemed to be capable of both exceptional and awful performances. Though I can guess that it coming so soon on the back of the Manchester Derby collapse doesn't help.

It's not really remarkable, it's what utd have done post fergie. One ok'ish season with champions league qualification, then the next of being mediocre.

The players down tools and get complacent after that one season. The only season we've had successive top 4 finishes was in covid times and no crowds, so doesn't really count. 

It's more to do with the character of players for me, no due dilligence on the characters when signing. 

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, thetime said:

It's not really remarkable, it's what utd have done post fergie. One ok'ish season with champions league qualification, then the next of being mediocre.

The players down tools and get complacent after that one season. The only season we've had successive top 4 finishes was in covid times and no crowds, so doesn't really count. 

It's more to do with the character of players for me, no due dilligence on the characters when signing. 

Well last season I thought Man United were two teams, given they had some very good moments & results but plenty of disasters, and what they needed was the right talent to smooth themselves out. But that's not what they've got.

It certainly does seem tbf like this is a squad not gelling, and with the new signings just not mixing well. Though it is pretty remarkable to see the dressing room leakers go from saying Ole's training was too relaxed to saying ten Hag's is too intense. Just feels like a contrarian streak.

Maybe it's also me being negative on signings. Hojlund felt odd to me - a punt on potential rather than getting somebody who could just go up top and score all the goals - while Mount feels like they're duplicating Bruno. Even if none feels as ridiculous as spending £85m+ on Antony.

[Neil]

[thetime]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

 Hojlund felt odd to me - a punt on potential rather than getting somebody who could just go up top and score all the goals 

It's not taking a punt is the issue, a lot of buys are like that. Liverpool and salah being prime example. The issue is we have a striker who thrives on crosses, united's wingers don't cross it. 

Another case of a lack of strategy in transfers. 

Although ten hag dropping varane for evans for tactical reasons, is a bit out there. I'm not varanes biggest fan, but come on.