Football 2023/24

[charlierc]

21 minutes ago, lost said:

Wolves broke the british transfer record in 1979 when they signed Andy Gray from Villa.

And they were in League One in 2014. Football is never a game where things stand still.

And I say this as someone who thinks FFP should be loosened to keep up with inflation, given I think a cap that's stayed at the same figure since 2015 is at risk of getting overtaken by events.

[charlierc]

50 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think it's literally just they're realised they're throwing money away and seeing if they can find a different way to do it.

I'm aware that Radcliffe and Team INEOS will be keen to try and prove they know what they're doing and just wanna throw cash at it. Presumably in the hope it goes smoother than getting into F1 with Mercedes just at the point they got overtaken by Red Bull, or indeed that it's taken until now for them to get Nice into a place to fight for the Ligue 1 title.

... or rather be 11 points off PSG, as that appears to be what that means this season.

44 minutes ago, thetime said:

I don't really follow director of footballs, but its a position united have been crying out for. If Man Utd come calling, he will go there thats for sure. 

I'm aware Ashworth has a relationship pre-dating his time with Newcastle (or even Brighton) with INEOS' Dave Brailsford and has been promised more control than what he gets at St James'. So if he goes and we get adequately compensated, it is what it is.

Saying that, also odd they'd happily have him do gardening leave. Leaving those already at the club to their own devices for the summer window is the sort of thing that saw them end up with Antony after all.

[Neil]

41 minutes ago, lost said:

Wolves broke the british transfer record in 1979 when they signed Andy Gray from Villa.

long time ago, and it eventually brankrupted them.

[lost]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

long time ago, and it eventually brankrupted them.

I think that was a dodgy property deal over a new stand rather than player transfers. Anyway the point was the pyramid used to work with different clubs rising and falling as the biggest spenders. I can't see a club outside of the sky 6 breaking it in the future. Infact the gulf is now so big they may as well go ahead with the euro league.

[Neil]

18 minutes ago, lost said:

I think that was a dodgy property deal over a new stand rather than player transfers. Anyway the point was the pyramid used to work with different clubs rising and falling as the biggest spenders. I can't see a club outside of the sky 6 breaking it in the future. Infact the gulf is now so big they may as well go ahead with the euro league.

i agree with you, but liecester did it.

[thetime]

29 minutes ago, lost said:

I think that was a dodgy property deal over a new stand rather than player transfers. Anyway the point was the pyramid used to work with different clubs rising and falling as the biggest spenders. I can't see a club outside of the sky 6 breaking it in the future. Infact the gulf is now so big they may as well go ahead with the euro league.

But clubs are breaking into the top 6 clubs. Leicester, Newcastle and villa for example. There's only really city guaranteed top 4 status, which is proven in the last 5 seasons. 

[thetime]

56 minutes ago, charlierc said:

 

Saying that, also odd they'd happily have him do gardening leave. Leaving those already at the club to their own devices for the summer window is the sort of thing that saw them end up with Antony after all.

As I understand it, they will pay so the gardening leave is a minimum. 

[Neil]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

There's only really city guaranteed top 4 status,

theres only the ridiculous spenders, and well managed teams who can do top four.

[thetime]

7 hours ago, Neil said:

 well managed teams who can do top four.

That's the way it should be.

All the traditional top sides are not guaranteed top 4. Liverpool who are perhaps the most sensible, had last season out. 

Newcastle had a taste last season, villa may have a chance this season. Likes of utd and spurs will be in and out, due to how they're run. 

[charlierc]

20 hours ago, thetime said:

As I understand it, they will pay so the gardening leave is a minimum. 

As is the rumour I've heard as well.

I still find it bizarre that Man U are willing to pay that much for a Director of Football, but it's not my place. Not least as I've heard of 2/3 names as possible replacements that I think could also do a decent job if we get them.

Though it may not be ideal for more change when this could be a busy summer, given reports that some clubs are seeing Bruno's £100m release clause as worth activating, that it's likely we'll need to move on from Dan Burn and Callum Wilson, and that several squad players are out of contract. But it is what it is. Making sure we finish top 7 is the first priority, and worry about the player churn later.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

As is the rumour I've heard as well.

I still find it bizarre that Man U are willing to pay that much for a Director of Football, but it's not my place. Not least as I've heard of 2/3 names as possible replacements that I think could also do a decent job if we get them.

Though it may not be ideal for more change when this could be a busy summer, given reports that some clubs are seeing Bruno's £100m release clause as worth activating, that it's likely we'll need to move on from Dan Burn and Callum Wilson, and that several squad players are out of contract. But it is what it is. Making sure we finish top 7 is the first priority, and worry about the player churn later.

As it stands it will be top 8 for Europe.

[charlierc]

34 minutes ago, thetime said:

As it stands it will be top 8 for Europe.

I was not aware of this.

Though would still be top 7 if Chelsea wins the Carabao next week as I believe doing that entitles you to a Europa Conference League place.

[thetime]

8 hours ago, charlierc said:

I was not aware of this.

Though would still be top 7 if Chelsea wins the Carabao next week as I believe doing that entitles you to a Europa Conference League place.

All depends if top 5 get champions league, as it stands they do and most likely will do. As city, arsenal and Liverpool will go deep into the competitions. 

Top 5 champions league

6th/7th europa

8th confrence

That could change, like you said on the cup final. 

[Neil]

I get to watch Aldershot on Amazon later today 

[charlierc]

12 hours ago, thetime said:

All depends if top 5 get champions league, as it stands they do and most likely will do. As city, arsenal and Liverpool will go deep into the competitions. 

Top 5 champions league

6th/7th europa

8th confrence

That could change, like you said on the cup final. 

Certainly, with our form as dysfunctional as it has been since Nick Pope's injury - especially defensively - we could use that security as a route into Europe if P8 potentially pays out a place. Drawing 2-2 with Bournemouth and needing the now-34-year-old reserve Matt Ritchie to save that isn't exactly a route back to the Champions League. Although given Isak & Wilson are both perennially unfit, that doesn't help.

Presumably if Chelsea win that final next weekend, that would make top 7 + Chelsea regardless of finishing position the European places assuming England's co-efficient pays out the extra Champions League place.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Certainly, with our form as dysfunctional as it has been since Nick Pope's injury - especially defensively - we could use that security as a route into Europe if P8 potentially pays out a place. Drawing 2-2 with Bournemouth and needing the now-34-year-old reserve Matt Ritchie to save that isn't exactly a route back to the Champions League. Although given Isak & Wilson are both perennially unfit, that doesn't help.

Presumably if Chelsea win that final next weekend, that would make top 7 + Chelsea regardless of finishing position the European places assuming England's co-efficient pays out the extra Champions League place.

good to see an ex Aldershot player being thought of as important for his latest team. 😛

 

[charlierc]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

good to see an ex Aldershot player being thought of as important for his latest team. 😛

 

Didn't know Pope was once at the Shots.

Granted, 5 games in Aldershot in a one month spell in 2013 is slightly fewer appearances than making over 50 Premier League appearances for Newcastle and the genuine truth that since he dislocated a shoulder in December, we've stopped being able to defend.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Didn't know Pope was once at the Shots.

Granted, 5 games in Aldershot in a one month spell in 2013 is slightly fewer appearances than making over 50 Premier League appearances for Newcastle and the genuine truth that since he dislocated a shoulder in December, we've stopped being able to defend.

I was surprised at us signing Pope, as I'd thought Dubravka was a perfectly decent keeper, but while Dubravka's shot-stopping is decent, Pope's leadership and command of the defense has been sorely missing.

[Ryan1984]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

Didn't know Pope was once at the Shots.

Granted, 5 games in Aldershot in a one month spell in 2013 is slightly fewer appearances than making over 50 Premier League appearances for Newcastle and the genuine truth that since he dislocated a shoulder in December, we've stopped being able to defend.

I thought he was decent for us in that month loan - but never saw him as an international/Premier League regular! Stephen Henderson and Alex McCarthy were also loanees at the Shots - both raw and full of potential but criticised by our more vocal fans.

Good win today and a big match v third-place Barnet on Tuesday night.

[charlierc]

14 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I was surprised at us signing Pope, as I'd thought Dubravka was a perfectly decent keeper, but while Dubravka's shot-stopping is decent, Pope's leadership and command of the defense has been sorely missing.

I thought we would upgrade on Dubravka but didn't expect it to be a goalkeeper who'd just been relegated with Burnley. But yeah.

There's issues all over the show with it tbf. It's clear the defence looked a lot more comfortable with Pope but also Burn looks out of form, the absence of Joelinton/Willock on the left-hand side is causing issues with covering for Burn's lack of pace, Almiron looks out of form and Wilson & Isak seem unable of staying fit for more than a few games at a time.

Still, if 7th gets Europe, and we finish there, I think I can live with that.

[Neil]

32 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Dubravka

he made vsome cracking saves from the highlights i saw.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

he made vsome cracking saves from the highlights i saw.

He's always been a strong shot-stopper, but his command of the box is pretty weak.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

he made vsome cracking saves from the highlights i saw.

 

10 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

He's always been a strong shot-stopper, but his command of the box is pretty weak.

This has been seen in statistical data, where Pope was more assertive in controlling the box than Dubravka despite not necessarily being as good with ball-at-feet.

Yesterday's first goal was a freak occurrence that can happen, but there's a sense Pope was saving more shots and better able to come to the edge of the box when dealing with situations, and that this combined with a high defensive line featuring, in Botman and Burn, two slow defenders on a side without injured players that were great at covering, the sense of a unit functioning about as well as it can do.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

 

Still, if 7th gets Europe, and we finish there, I think I can live with that.

When you think where you've been for a decade, 7th is a great season. Think we've discussed before, it's going to be incredibly difficult for Newcastle to do a chelsea/city.

Personally think you are just 10 years to late to have any major impact going for titles. Europa and the occasional top 4, when the likes of Liverpool are off it, is your level. 

 

Edited February 18, 2024 by thetime

[kaosmark2]

6 minutes ago, thetime said:

When you think where you've been for a decade, 7th is a great season. Think we've discussed before, it's going to be incredibly difficult for Newcastle to do a chelsea/city.

Personally think you are just 10 years to late to have any major impact going for titles. Europa and the occasional top 4, when the likes of Liverpool are off it, is your level. 

Off titles yes. I'd like to think winning a cup might be doable before that.