Football 2023/24

[thetime]

30 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

 I think it can also be argued that the timing meant it was easier for Fergie to win titles than Klopp. 

 

Don't agree. 

 

 

 

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Don't agree. 

 

 

 

Man City have been averaging 89 points a season under Pep . If there were a team averaging that in the Fergie years there is no way they would have won so many titles.

[thetime]

39 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Man City have been averaging 89 points a season under Pep . If there were a team averaging that in the Fergie years there is no way they would have won so many titles.

 

Fergie would of raised it again and took the challenge. Like he did with abramovic and city's money.

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

12 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

 

On a completely unrelated note how is Stephen Fletcher considered in Scotland. After years Wrexham have finally had a decent Scottish player. I don’t think I would keep him due to age, but his contributions and personality won’t be forgotten.

Decent player Fletcher. Scored a couple of hat tricks for Scotland. We could do with him in the summer as our 2 likely strikers for Germany don’t score goals. We’ll play with one up front and hope for goals to come from midfield. 

Glad he’s been a success as he’s a fair age to be playing that kinda role. Believe it or not my team in the Scottish championship tried to get him last summer so I’d imagine he was surprised to end up where he did. Great last move for him.

[Neil]

6 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Extra marks for klopp for not winning the league. 🤣

 

You could argue on the quality of the league also. End of the day klopp has 1 league title at Liverpool in 9 years, which is pretty below average for people to claim he's one of the best ever. 

 

The argument about city doesn't hold up either, last 4 seasons and 1 of those he finishes above 3rd.

One league title one European cup three Euro finals other cups too.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

 

Fergie would of raised it again and took the challenge. Like he did with abramovic and city's money.

 

 

I have no doubt they would have raised their game to some extent. When Wrexham won beat the points record in the national league last season I think it was largely due to being pushed all season. Chesterfield this season we’re on course for a similar total but faded when winning the league with games to spare.

 

So I agree they would also have upped their points, but if a team as good as City had been around then, there is no way Man Utd win as much.

[pink_triangle]

39 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

Decent player Fletcher. Scored a couple of hat tricks for Scotland. We could do with him in the summer as our 2 likely strikers for Germany don’t score goals. We’ll play with one up front and hope for goals to come from midfield. 

Glad he’s been a success as he’s a fair age to be playing that kinda role. Believe it or not my team in the Scottish championship tried to get him last summer so I’d imagine he was surprised to end up where he did. Great last move for him.

 

It was a bit of a fluke of circumstances. We tried to sign another player on transfer deadline day which fell apart due to an administration error. This left us only able to sign free agents and that’s a pretty small pool when the window has shut.

 

8 goals in 33 games is decent return for someone who plays 15 minutes most games. We tried to start him (you can see he is a class above) but he doesn’t really have the legs and despite scoring a hat trick one game generally worked better as a substitute. Great character in the dressing room as well and will be missed if he moves on.

[Neil]

Everton are guaranteed a hattrick with Jimmy Melville as a shareholder.

Comedy club comedy shareholder. : p 

[Neil]

Tottenham wanted arsenal to win so helped them with the first goal.

[Gnomicide]

It's all relative, isn't it? 

 

 

Maybe a better comparison would be to the many Man Utd managers that have been and gone during Klopp's stint. First 300 games:

Edited April 29, 2024 by Gnomicide

[thetime]

7 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

It's all relative, isn't it? 

 

 

Maybe a better comparison would be to the many Man Utd managers that have been and gone during Klopp's stint. First 300 games:

 

Difference is pep, jose, fergie and even wenger are multiple premier league winners.

 

Klopp isn't. 

[pink_triangle]

13 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

Difference is pep, jose, fergie and even wenger are multiple premier league winners.

 

Klopp isn't. 

I think Klopp not being may be linked to the manager and team at the top of that list. Klopps stats win multiple premiership titles in any era other than the one he managed.

[thetime]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think Klopp not being may be linked to the manager and team at the top of that list. Klopps stats win multiple premiership titles in any era other than the one he managed.

You can't say that, who knows if those stats would be the same in another era. 

 

Basically he hasn't been good enough to win titles. No one is going to remember points tally in 20 years. They will remember him only winning 1 title. His return has been poor, especially with spending a billion euros.

 

Although I'm sure people will spout net and wages. 

[lost]

IMO in the age of FFP, 5 subs and 5 - 10 minutes of injury time your going to get larger points totals for which ever of the sky 6 are competing for the league. That trend is only going to get worse with axing FA cup replays etc..

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

You can't say that, who knows if those stats would be the same in another era. 

 

Basically he hasn't been good enough to win titles. No one is going to remember points tally in 20 years. They will remember him only winning 1 title. His return has been poor, especially with spending a billion euros.

 

You can’t say how many titles a manager wins is purely down to “how good he is”. It’s a factor, but other factors are financial power and the standard of opposition. You are correct record books don’t reflect that, but any sensible analysis should.

[Neil]

4 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Difference is pep, jose, fergie and even wenger are multiple premier league winners.

 

Klopp isn't. 

i'd say wenger and fergie are the stand-outs in that list, because they very clearly developed and improved players. for pep & moaniho it was clearly about the big spending. klopp spent a lot (but  often in some less obvious places [ i think that was the backroom stats guys identifying targets], but who else would have made a big plays for virgil or diogo + robertson, who's performances at previous clubs didn't suggest they could be that good.

Edited April 29, 2024 by Neil

[thetime]

7 hours ago, Neil said:

i'd say wenger and fergie are the stand-outs in that list, because they very clearly developed and improved players. for pep & moaniho it was clearly about the big spending. klopp spent a lot (but  often in some less obvious places [ i think that was the backroom stats guys identifying targets], but who else would have made a big plays for virgil or diogo + robertson, who's performances at previous clubs didn't suggest they could be that good.

Good point.

 

Likes of Robertson, Salah and Jota were great signings. In fact very like fergie signings and the way he did. Fergie wasn't always about signing the best players. Likes of Cantona for £1 million, Irwin from Oldham for under a million, Schmeichel for under a million and that list is quite endless. 

 

I suppose Jota from Wolves is very like Yorke from Villa.

 

 

[thetime]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

You can’t say how many titles a manager wins is purely down to “how good he is”. It’s a factor, but other factors are financial power and the standard of opposition. You are correct record books don’t reflect that, but any sensible analysis should.

 

It's a great misconception that fergie spent the most, of course there were years when they were.

 

He saw off Daglish and Blackburn millions.

He saw of Keegan and Newcastle millions.

He saw of Jose and Chelsea's billions.

He also raised it again against City, when utd had a very average midfield to say the least and the team ageing. 

 

Let's not forget his Aberdeen days as well. 

 

Fergie's endless desire to move forward is perhaps his greatest strength. 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

I suppose Jota from Wolves is very like Yorke from Villa.

i'd say they're not the same (or perhaps my memories are wrong?) Yorke was an established goal scorer, jota wasn't he's a different player at Liverpool

[Neil]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

 

It's a great misconception that fergie spent the most, of course there were years when they were.

 

He saw off Daglish and Blackburn millions.

He saw of Keegan and Newcastle millions.

He saw of Jose and Chelsea's billions.

He also raised it again against City, when utd had a very average midfield to say the least and the team ageing. 

 

Let's not forget his Aberdeen days as well. 

 

Fergie's endless desire to move forward is perhaps his greatest strength. 

there was no Newcastle millions, just a circular money trail, where hall sucked money from the club and then gave it back to the club and said "look at the money I've given!"

[LukeCage]

15 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Difference is pep, jose, fergie and even wenger are multiple premier league winners.

 

Klopp isn't. 

He could still be!

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, LukeCage said:

He could still be!

not if he's leaving, cant win it this year even if city and the arse implode.

[LukeCage]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

not if he's leaving, cant win it this year even if city and the arse implode.

It's still possible this year.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, LukeCage said:

It's still possible this year.

arsenal have 80 points Liverpool cant get 80 points can only get 78.

[LukeCage]

23 minutes ago, Neil said:

arsenal have 80 points Liverpool cant get 80 points can only get 78.

Liverpool have 75 points with 3 games left so can get 84