Glamping...how many

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Sorry no offence meant when referring to old bangers (I have one myself!) 

I was just highlighting that the CV fields of the current day are populated by much more wealthy individuals, bucket listers  and van glampers as opposed to travellers etc.

No offence taken.

I have an "old banger" as well.

It's a shame that not many of the old classic vans, buses etc are around. Thankfully there are still some in the SE corner/Green Futures/Undle Ground/Craft Fields/T&C/Arcadia/Dragon Field etc

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, Superscally said:

There's loads of things I can't do now that I used to be able to do, but I'm not asking those things to change, I'm reluctantly accepting what I can't do.

Unless the reason you can't do it classes as a disability and then you're fine with it changing?

Your support for accessibility just stops at an arbitrary place.

And you're fine with campervans. And pretty much everyone opting for glamping would be fine in a campervan. It's the most glamp of all the glamping options. Problem is, they're too big, you can fit more people in with other, cheaper glamping options. If WV was made twice as big and stuffed full of pre-sited campervans I really don't think anyone would mind, but I suspect you would.

[DeanoL]

25 minutes ago, Superscally said:

 I'm just saying I wish the need for it didn't exist - I.e. entitled Instagram tastic bucket listers who are anything but the vibe of what Glastonbury was and should be.

That's really not who is using glamping. The instagram-tastic bucket listers are young people, mostly on limited income, generally found in regular camping. The glampers are old-timers in their 40s and 50s who can't hack camping anymore but have large disposable incomes.

The idea that dropping the glamping would lead to less instagrammers and more "proper glasto goers" is entirely backwards. It would lead to a significantly higher number of young, physically fit people. Now ask yourself how many people that fit into that bracket give you the "vibe of what Glastonbury should be" these days.

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Now ask yourself how many people that fit into that bracket give you the "vibe of what Glastonbury should be" these days.

At the end of the day, who are we to be gatekeeping what the vibe of Glastonbury should be anyway?

Of course 2024's crowd will have a different 'vibe' to the 1990's.

[Alvoram]

Is nobody bored of this debate year in year out yet? 

 

Plenty of influencers in general, campers, and official hospitality camping... Plenty of us broke sods scrimping and saving to make our festival a little easier in glamping like Love Fields... 

It's a stupid debate that makes no sense to anybody who's experienced both sides of festivals. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Alvoram

[Avalon_Fields]

27 minutes ago, stuie said:

I was just highlighting that the CV fields of the current day are populated by much more wealthy individuals, bucket listers  and van glampers as opposed to travellers etc. 

 

 

You're probably right to a degree, but I’d say the majority in the CV fields don’t fit that description, they’re older or with young families and have been going to the festival for some years. Yes they’re probably wealthier on average, not so sure about the ‘much more’,  there’s very few who appear to be travellers for sure. I know I’m reacting a bit protectively seeing I’ve ended my 8 years of camping and onto 8 years in a CV now. 

[DeanoL]

22 minutes ago, stuie said:

At the end of the day, who are we to be gatekeeping what the vibe of Glastonbury should be anyway?

Of course 2024's crowd will have a different 'vibe' to the 1990's.

Yup - people who were in their 20s in the 1990s are in their 50s now and if still attending, are bringing a very different vibe. While people who are in their 20s now are very different to people who were in their 20s back in the 1990s.

There's zero way the vibe can remain the same, regardless of what the demographic is. 

[DeanoL]

5 minutes ago, Avalon_Fields said:

You're probably right to a degree, but I’d say the majority in the CV fields don’t fit that description, they’re older or with young families and have been going to the festival for some years. Yes they’re probably wealthier on average, not so sure about the ‘much more’,  there’s very few who appear to be travellers for sure. I know I’m reacting a bit protectively seeing I’ve ended my 8 years of camping and onto 8 years in a CV now. 

Everyone at the festival is much wealthier these days because the ticket prices are so much higher. The sole exception are those on the organisational side.

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

There's zero way the vibe can remain the same, regardless of what the demographic is. 

Indeed. Even if the festival hadn't changed a single thing in the intervening years the rest of the world would still have moved on.

[Avalon_Fields]

4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Everyone at the festival is much wealthier these days because the ticket prices are so much higher. The sole exception are those on the organisational side.

Exactly! 

[philipsteak]

3 hours ago, DeanoL said:

That's really not who is using glamping. The instagram-tastic bucket listers are young people, mostly on limited income, generally found in regular camping. The glampers are old-timers in their 40s and 50s who can't hack camping anymore but have large disposable incomes.

.

As someone who volunteers on the gates I don't think this is entirely true.

I'll concede they probably skew older but there's plenty of young people staying outside the fence.

What level of glamping option they're using I obviously don't know but they're definitely using them.

[DeanoL]

20 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

As someone who volunteers on the gates I don't think this is entirely true.

I'll concede they probably skew older but there's plenty of young people staying outside the fence.

What level of glamping option they're using I obviously don't know but they're definitely using them.

I just mean as a general thing. Cutting glamping is going to lead to more young instagrammers, not less. Obviously people from every category are in every type of camping. 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

I just mean as a general thing. Cutting glamping is going to lead to more young instagrammers, not less. Obviously people from every category are in every type of camping. 

No problem with young "instagrammers" as long as they're partying hard.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

18 hours ago, Avalon_Fields said:

I love the satellite image, it provides a very clear picture of the extent of the festival outside the fence

 

Thanks for posting that. I found myself having a wander around the place. Probably as close as I'll ever get again. I noticed that for several years I have always said that I have always camped camped at 'Top Webbs Ash'. I was wrong (as ever) - it was Michael's Mead.

In addition to the above, I finally realised the scale of getting from and back to the car parks in the 50's. I ended up parking there for the last few years that I was there. I was using directions from someone from Liverpool off efests. It included roads that you could go down, even if there were no entry signs. However, I wasn't breaking rules, they were (whoever 'they' are), as closure of these roads had not been granted or formally approved.

I've had a smoke btw - so no longer know where the decent length of post cut off is.

I'll cut it short;

One year of parking in the 50's, I witnessed the complete carnage of people further in, trying to get out of the fields in their vehicles on Monday morning. My trolley on that occasion (a carp fishing trolley) got me to camp, and back, and then just as I got to the boot of my car, it disintegrated. It had held on to the very last. 

Another 50's car park effort saw me use a very large wheelbarrow, that is normally used for hay, or some such. Only I didn't use it. I was about to, when I suddenly got a bout of gout (that rhymes, that does). So, a friend had to push this insanely overloaded, insanely sized wheelbarrow - all the way to camp. I was howling! Not in laughter, but in pain. When we finally arrived at camp (Michael's Mead!) the gout immediately disappeared. No word of a lie! It just got 'better', all of a sudden. Oh, and on the way in, a steward congratulated us (me, my wife, and a mate) for having the second biggest load that he'd seen that day. We had been beaten by someone who had perched their small child on top of the precarious load, and therefor stole victory!

Oh, I think that I know when it's time to stop now.

[Boris]

38 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I'll cut it short;

Never change Yoghurt! 😙

[Boris]

About the actual subject - truly we started going pre-erected after my wife decided to start coming again having had a few years off - preferring to stay home with our daughter. Without this they would not have come these past few years. I'll admit my challenged manlihood has me in denial that it's 'their fault' that I have to 'Glamp'. We've done Tipis 3 times, Worthy View twice and Sticklinch once I think. Honestly the family don't cramp my style.. I prefer them to be with me - however we stay. I fully agree we can't turn the clock back. I remember the edgy days of the later eighties and it's pointless pining for them. Everything changes. It's still bloody brilliant.

[stuie]

59 minutes ago, Boris said:

About the actual subject - truly we started going pre-erected after my wife decided to start coming again having had a few years off - preferring to stay home with our daughter. Without this they would not have come these past few years. I'll admit my challenged manlihood has me in denial that it's 'their fault' that I have to 'Glamp'. We've done Tipis 3 times, Worthy View twice and Sticklinch once I think. Honestly the family don't cramp my style.. I prefer them to be with me - however we stay. I fully agree we can't turn the clock back. I remember the edgy days of the later eighties and it's pointless pining for them. Everything changes. It's still bloody brilliant.

Well how bloody dare you change the demographic of the festival 😂😂

 

And that’s what I think typical glamping is, not wall to wall influencers making ‘content’! 

[fred quimby]

35 minutes ago, stuie said:

Well how bloody dare you change the demographic of the festival 😂😂

 

And that’s what I think typical glamping is, not wall to wall influencers making ‘content’! 

You mean you don't follow @Borison insta ?

[stuie]

1 minute ago, fred quimby said:

You mean you don't follow @Borison insta ?

haha no is he worth a follow?

[2019]

What I've not really understood is the economics around the festival tickets that the off site glamping include with their accomodation. Where do these tickets come from, and how are they official when mortals have to go to see-tickets for theirs? 

[Johnnyseven]

8 hours ago, Superscally said:

Some of them definitely do, but like I said they have been there from the start and I reckon there are a lot more old stagers there than the glamping. I'm not saying the glamping should be banned, I'm just saying I wish the need for it didn't exist - I.e. entitled Instagram tastic bucket listers who are anything but the vibe of what Glastonbury was and should be.

And there was me thinking the vibe of Glastonbury was inclusivity.

[fred quimby]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

haha no is he worth a follow?

Of course, wouldn't be dressed like I am without his pages

Edited November 9, 2023 by fred quimby

[incident]

2 minutes ago, 2019 said:

What I've not really understood is the economics around the festival tickets that the off site glamping include with their accomodation. Where do these tickets come from, and how are they official when mortals have to go to see-tickets for theirs? 

It varies but for most of the ones reasonably close to the fence - the landowner agrees a deal with the festival to rent out certain fields. In return, they get an agreed number of Hospitality tickets as part of the fee.

They then rent out one of their other fields to a Hospitality provider (probably for far, far more than the festival is paying them), who gets use of those tickets as part of the deal.

[2019]

2 minutes ago, incident said:

It varies but for most of the ones reasonably close to the fence - the landowner agrees a deal with the festival to rent out certain fields. In return, they get an agreed number of Hospitality tickets as part of the fee.

They then rent out one of their other fields to a Hospitality provider (probably for far, far more than the festival is paying them), who gets use of those tickets as part of the deal.

Maybe it is the availability of these 'hospitality tickets' that could change the face of the festival, particularly if they include access to areas not normally available to mortals? Rather than the expanded glamping per-se. In my view, one of the great levelers is the ticket arrangements, having some tickets available to the highest bidder feels a bit wrong, and creates a two tier system.

 

[Sawdusty surfer]

11 hours ago, Skip997 said:

In the very early days the vans were generally a mix of old buses, vans and more unusual transport, e.g. fire engines, ambulances, old military vehicles etc . Some could be classified as "old bangers", but many were restored and converted classics (Bedfords, Leylands etc). A lot of pride was taken in some of these vehicles, which were peoples full time homes, many of them being extremely luxurious. 

The "old bangers" with a mattress in the back came later (late 80's/early 90's). This was during a period when the "traveler scene rapidly expanded due to loads of inner city "counter culture" types realising that all you needed was a cheap transit, a mattress and some bedding. It's worth noting that "the dole" (now known as universal credit?) was extremely easy to obtain in those times, including the now barely believable appearance of benefit vans on travelers sites.

I will start by saying that I agree with just about all of your posts on the forum. 

The above is pretty much spot on, in particular, how easy it was to get free money from the government back in the day. One time, the missus and I went to Neath dole office to make a new claim. Daughter #2 was about 3 months old. We said that we were of no fixed abode and the lovely lady dealing with our claim said that if we were NFA we couldn't possibly be living together if we didn't live anywhere so therefore should make two separate claims. OK, so I made a claim as a single parent for daughter #1 and other half for #2. That meant lots of extra money and double child benefit and crucially didn't have to sign on anymore. Just free money every fortnight, result! That was about the same time that the government came up with The Enterprise Allowance Scheme, a dodge to massage the enormous unemployment figures. If on the dole you'd say that you were setting up a business, submit a business plan and then get financial support for a year or two to get you going. It was more than dole moneyand full rent would be paid as well. I knew loads of people who would set up businesses as songwriters, puppeteers etc and then bugger off to India or Thailand for a year or two and live like kings! One huge positive of this was that genuine applicants of the scheme could form bands, become artists and various other amazing thing nand really focus on it and actually make it work without having to spend most of their time flipping burgers to make ends meet. I bet many reading this will love some of the music that exists now purely because of that government support.

 As far as dole vans visiting traveller sites..... erm, sorry no. It did happen once and it was clearly a government ploy that would get reported in the media and influence public opinion. Oh boy,and did it work. Arguably the last ever proper |Free Festival was tail end of July '92. Happy Daze Free Festival. The year before it was at Bala and I was somewhat involved in it. Castlemoreton happened in May '92 and there was a huge police crackdown on us lot. I thought that I'd chance my arm and contacted Dyfed Powys Police hoping to negotiate a site for Happy Daze '92 using a false name, Philip Mitchilum. I asked them to get in touch using the small ads in The Shropshire Star newspaper. They didn't, they ran a huge article appealing for Philip Mitchilum to get in touch! Got the press cutting somewhere, will have to dig it out.This resulted in me, the missus and a mate \Stef agreeing to a meeting with them in the Newtown police station. As we were walking up the stairs an obviously undercover copper said "Hi James" . sh*t, the blag name clearly didn't work very well. We all sat down in some conference room and Chief Inspector John LLewellyn Williams asked about Philip Mitchilum. I replied "Fill up my chillum". They really didn't see the funny side of it.Complete sense of humour failure.

Anyway, cut a long story short, they agreed to provide us with a site for the festival. We were parked up in some forestry near Meifod called The Dragons Back at the time and the Chief Inspector randomly popped up a couple of times for a chat. He was actually clearly a good bloke. The day before the festival he returned really late at night...we thought it was a wind up and there'd be no site given to us, and told us where we could have the festival. Obviously we had no time to check the location out but it seemed OK. We immediately shot off to the nearest phone box to make some calls to spread the word and next day off we went.

The site was kind of OK...except that it was owned by an ancient farmer. Poorly fenced and sheep everywhere. The sheep hadn't been moved away. Loads of sheep killed by travellers dogs which was obviously reported in every newspaper.....and the icing on the cake was, for the first time ever, a dole office was set up on site for EVERYONE to sign on. Didn't matter bwhat name you gave,whether you were entitled to dole or not, you got a Giro on the spot. Completely unheard of. The number of people in the queue to sign on was almost matched by the number of press reporters there. Remember, this was just after Castlemoreton, the largest Free Festival/Rave ever in the UK, the one that caused the Criminal Justice Act to be brought in which ended the travelling scene along with Free Festivals and raves.

It was this that created the urban myth that mobile dole offices used to visit New Age Traveller sites.