UK Politics

[steviewevie]

Govt have withdrawn their amendment...so Labour one gets voted on (I think, not sure how all this stuff works, it's like brexit all over again)

[Neil]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

I was under the impression the sex offences were a smokescreen and made up to get him extradited? 

thats you falling for assange's propaganda

[Neil]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yeah. I don't like bringing my personal choices around these things into arguments like this because it comes from my own opportunities. That said, if I'm in the middle of a 14hr work day and somewhere that knows me as a staff member of a local business offers me a 1/2 price or free burger there's 0 chance I'm turning that down. I try and make decisions but I'm going to be kind for the times circumstances don't allow me them. I also know other people don't even has as much luxury around these choices as I do.

most people don't work in a non-food outlet in the middle of a rated food-market!

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

I'd love to see mhari black achieve anything positive (apart from to herself), I'd also like to see her condemn Hamas for not taking up the ceasefire opportunities.

[steviewevie]

Tory and SNP MPs walking out in protest. Farce. 

[steviewevie]

I guess this means there won't be peace in the middle east now.

Edited February 21 by steviewevie
I really need to get my there/their/they're right

[Nobody Interesting]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Tory and SNP MPs walking out in protest. Farce. 

Never before as a debate aledged to be about Humanatarian matters turned into such a school playground political farce.

I so wish the next election would rid us of all of them - but it won't and the farce will carry on while innocents die all over the world.

Just like in WW2, business flouts sanctions in the hunt for profit regardless of the result.
https://news.sky.com/story/british-firms-exports-are-almost-certainly-bolstering-russias-war-machine-in-ukraine-sky-data-analysis-finds-13077660

[Neil]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

Never before as a debate aledged to be about Humanatarian matters turned into such a school playground political farce

never before have the grown up parties let the snp play with the big boys

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Never before as a debate aledged to be about Humanatarian matters turned into such a school playground political farce.

I so wish the next election would rid us of all of them - but it won't and the farce will carry on while innocents die all over the world.

Just like in WW2, business flouts sanctions in the hunt for profit regardless of the result.
https://news.sky.com/story/british-firms-exports-are-almost-certainly-bolstering-russias-war-machine-in-ukraine-sky-data-analysis-finds-13077660

pathetic isnt it ... cant figure out quite whats happened but these are grown adults supposedly representing us 

[Guest]

The SNP raised this motion to try to get one over on Labour and it’s completely backfired on them. They look like amateurs. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

The SNP raised this motion to try to get one over on Labour and it’s completely backfired on them. They look like amateurs. 

how so ? not quite figured this out yet .... I mean yeah ive seen they walked out .... think I need this simplified 🙂 

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

pathetic isnt it ... cant figure out quite whats happened but these are grown adults supposedly representing us 

They represent their parties and in an election year party is paramount.

They will say and do anything to try and show themselves to be big and clever or the others to be small and petty. They have no idea at all how it looks to others and probably do not really care.

If there was any of me left that still might have voted for a bigger party that would have died today - the UK (and most of the world) needs so real hardcore change. Sadly it will not happen and so I look forward (not) to coming back to this or another site in 5 years and 10 years to carry on the same conversations again and again as nothing is going to change.

and with things like this
https://nypost.com/2024/02/18/world-news/israel-unanimously-votes-to-reject-all-calls-for-brokered-palestinian-state-huge-reward-to-terrorism/

What is the point of anyone demanding anything of Israel anyway cos they long ago stopped listening.

[Nobody Interesting]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The SNP raised this motion to try to get one over on Labour and it’s completely backfired on them. They look like amateurs. 

and Labour penned their own amendment to try and get one over on SNP and Tories and Tories penned their to get one over on SNP and Labour.

If any of them really really cared they would have met behind closed doors and got a version they would all vote for rather than having a day of grandstanding and tantrums.

There is no excuse for any of it - pathetic

[Guest]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

how so ? not quite figured this out yet .... I mean yeah ive seen they walked out .... think I need this simplified 🙂 

They raised the immediate ceasefire motion to cause division in Labour. Labour responded by raising their own amendment to the motion which is only slightly different, the Speaker went against precedence to select the amendment. Therefore as the SNP can’t vote against they’ve kicked off and stormed out. 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

They raised the immediate ceasefire motion to cause division in Labour. Labour responded by raising their own amendment to the motion which is only slightly different, the Speaker went against precedence to select the amendment. Therefore as the SNP can’t vote against they’ve kicked off and stormed out. 

isnt the SNP motion/ amendment or whatever  what they've been backing all along ? and surely labour could have gone with that if there wasn't much difference ?

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The SNP raised this motion to try to get one over on Labour and it’s completely backfired on them. They look like amateurs. 

whatever the reason it's still pretty dodgy and I'm not surprised they're pissed off to be honest. I think Starmer should have just allowed a free vote on the SNP one...now it is even more messy.

[Nobody Interesting]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

isnt the SNP motion/ amendment or whatever  what they've been backing all along ? and surely labour could have gone with that if there wasn't much difference ?

Labour had the word 'humanitarian' added and lots of clauses to 'quantify' things so they seemed balanced rather than maybe slightly towards Gaza.
In theory none of the amendments are very different - using different words to say very similar things..................... which will be totally ignored anyway regardless of which os done.

All it goes to show is that the UK Parliament is broken

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

isnt the SNP motion/ amendment or whatever  what they've been backing all along ? and surely labour could have gone with that if there wasn't much difference ?

Labour have said the SNP motion used some language they aren’t comfortable with (especially because Starmer might then become PM and have to sit opposite Netanyahu) and some other parts they weren’t completely happy with. So they tabled their own one. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

isnt the SNP motion/ amendment or whatever  what they've been backing all along ? and surely labour could have gone with that if there wasn't much difference ?

The SNP ones calls for immediate ceasefire and Hamas to release all hostages, but it says nothing about disarming Hamas which Labour's implies, and says Israel is carrying out collective punishment which Labour refuse to acknowledge. The reason for Labour's stance I have heard is that they will likely be next government and will need to negotiate with the Israeli government.

[LJS]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

isnt the SNP motion/ amendment or whatever  what they've been backing all along ? and surely labour could have gone with that if there wasn't much difference ?

Correct. The SNP have been consistently calling for a ceasefire. Labour eventually decided they agreed but, of course, couldn't possibly vote for an SNP motion so they put down and amendment which effectively said "we support a ceasefire but we hate the SNP."

[steviewevie]

..and probably want to stay buddies with US.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

whatever the reason it's still pretty dodgy and I'm not surprised they're pissed off to be honest. I think Starmer should have just allowed a free vote on the SNP one...now it is even more messy.

I’m not so sure, he had a right to raise an amendment especially if he feels the SNP motion isn’t right. 

[steviewevie]

Labour's stance isn't really that different to what it has been saying for a while, it just replaces sustainable ceasefire with immediate humanitarian ceasefire...and using the word immediate made all the difference. It also isn't that different to what Govt and SNP are saying...it is just SNP are saying stop now and we'll worry about hostages and stuff later. Whole thing is crazy, getting all tied up with this wording, as if what we say makes a jot of difference.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’m not so sure, he had a right to raise an amendment especially if he feels the SNP motion isn’t right. 

maybe he has that right, I have no idea...but he needs to explain clearly why he did it. If he wanted to take heat out of it because it's a hugely inflammatory issue and MPs are getting all sorts of threats these days then I can understand that...but he needs to say. I don't think anyone has come out of this well.

[LJS]

Of course the whole thing is not helped by Westminster's ridiculous and outdated rules.