UK Politics

[Guest]

Comments on the Savanta poll from earlier. It is funny seeing the media completely overreact to it this morning. 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

But they would have seen it heard the headlines.

Honestly I think if you ask the average voter about labours green policies you would get a blank look back. The majority are not tuning into political headlines like we are.

[steviewevie]

this guy

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, SalviaPlath said:

Fair point but I canvassed for Labour for many years and international politics including the Middle East did come up and all sorts of views on that, by no means limited to a pro-Palestine position. I've heard both criticism and praise for Labour's international stances over the years. 

I would also say what people are willing to say to a canvasser or a journalist in public don't necessarily reflect their feelings or mean they don't care about something. People are scared of talking about Palestine because of a climate of fear and intimidation and concern that a reasonable objection to the Israeli offensive constitutes Antisemitism. 

Also let's look at it another way outside of the narrow by election context. People aren't talking about Labour's recent Antisemitism fiasco. Is this something to be celebrated? David Baddiel might have a point with the title of his book "Jews don't count" in that case. 

I honestly believe the majority of people in this country spend minimal time thinking about Middle East politics. I think social media politics discussion really skews perception.

Of course that’s not to say nobody cares about it, but I honestly believe it’s not going to be a key factor when people vote next in a general election. Of course it may influence Muslim/Jewish voters more, but there is a danger in thinking their views on politics are purely formed by their faith. They care about housing, education, cost of living , NHS just like everyone else.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, clarkete said:

Some States decide lots of things by referendums and it causes terrible problems and paralyses their ability to run things competently...not that our central gov has excelled in that area for many years. 

I think that’s only telling one side of the story, these referendum can also be used when legislature is out of sync with voters, for example protections for abortion have come from referendum.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Honestly I think if you ask the average voter about labours green policies you would get a blank look back. The majority are not tuning into political headlines like we are.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Is the average person reading a newspaper in 2024? I know when we discussed it in work not a single person bought a newspaper. My parents still do, although I had to guilt trip them out of the torygraph.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I honestly believe the majority of people in this country spend minimal time thinking about Middle East politics. I think social media politics discussion really skews perception.

Of course that’s not to say nobody cares about it, but I honestly believe it’s not going to be a key factor when people vote next in a general election. Of course it may influence Muslim/Jewish voters more, but there is a danger in thinking their views on politics are purely formed by their faith. They care about housing, education, cost of living , NHS just like everyone else.

I agree, most people don’t pay that much attention to the Middle East and candidates being suspended especially when we are still in a cost of living crises. I think it’s projection from some that they believe that voters do. 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I honestly believe the majority of people in this country spend minimal time thinking about Middle East politics. I think social media politics discussion really skews perception.

Of course that’s not to say nobody cares about it, but I honestly believe it’s not going to be a key factor when people vote next in a general election. Of course it may influence Muslim/Jewish voters more, but there is a danger in thinking their views on politics are purely formed by their faith. They care about housing, education, cost of living , NHS just like everyone else.

Yes it isn't the highest priority for the majority, but it is on the news every night, and it is all grim and upsetting and no one seems to be doing anything about it. Maybe it won't have that much of an effect in the next election, but the muslim population who on the whole normally vote Labour may not vote for them next time, or again, and that loss plus other divisions over Israel could well end up hurting Labour in the future.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Is the average person reading a newspaper in 2024? I know when we discussed it in work not a single person bought a newspaper. My parents still do, although I had to guilt trip them out of the torygraph.

no, probably not. Depends on demographic and age etc...but the newspapers are still powerful, and politicians go out of their way to please Mail/Sun readers. Most people will get any news from TV, which would have had this uturn as main headline, or social media which would have had this all over any news coverage, from the left or right. 

[Neil]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

another labour drop....green investment uturn?

 

unlikely that  green stuff is influencing how people will vote, research says it has a tiny tiny impact. if its that useful expect loads of green stuff from the tories.

[fraybentos1]

14 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Is the average person reading a newspaper in 2024? I know when we discussed it in work not a single person bought a newspaper. My parents still do, although I had to guilt trip them out of the torygraph.

Average person- no but most people that do are older and more likely to vote.

Most people will get some sort of news from the BBC or Twitter etc though

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

unlikely that  green stuff is influencing how people will vote, research says it has a tiny tiny impact. if its that useful expect loads of green stuff from the tories.

Maybe it's Sunak's trans joke that did it then.

[fraybentos1]

26 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I honestly believe the majority of people in this country spend minimal time thinking about Middle East politics. I think social media politics discussion really skews perception.

Of course that’s not to say nobody cares about it, but I honestly believe it’s not going to be a key factor when people vote next in a general election. Of course it may influence Muslim/Jewish voters more, but there is a danger in thinking their views on politics are purely formed by their faith. They care about housing, education, cost of living , NHS just like everyone else.

It's a daft argument. Most people spend minimal time thinking about almost everything. 

Most people spend little to no time thinking about social care but the dementia tax still had a massive negative impact on Theresa May's campaign

[fraybentos1]

wtf does influence how people vote then? If we are just dismissing everything we don't want to hear.

I mean obviously with some people it comes down to what leader they fancy more... but thats not the majority.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It's a daft argument. Most people spend minimal time thinking about almost everything. 

Most people spend little to no time thinking about social care but the dementia tax still had a massive negative impact on Theresa May's campaign

the impact wasn't about social care but about the state taking life savings (house, etc), for old age care.

[steviewevie]

hate to say it, but I agree with Fray.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

wtf does influence how people vote then? If we are just dismissing everything we don't want to hear.

I mean obviously with some people it comes down to what leader they fancy more... but thats not the majority.

most people have already fixed where their vote is going, with a party that they think matches their values, so the tories taking a person's savings for later-life care impacts more on tories then labour voters.

[fred quimby]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I agree with Fray.

Me to

[fraybentos1]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

the impact wasn't about social care but about the state taking life savings (house, etc), for old age care.

you know what I meant and my point still stands

[fraybentos1]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

hate to say it, but I agree with Fray.

this is a collector's item right here

[fred quimby]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

the impact wasn't about social care but about the state taking life savings (house, etc), for old age care.

Which kind of proves Frays point

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

hate to say it, but I agree with Fray.

about what part???

[Neil]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

you know what I meant and my point still stands

the effect it had on tory support still stands - it went against basic tory values - thats why it had an impact.

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

about what part???

You can't just discount everything as 'voters don't vote based on that' cause it suits your narrative.

I gave an example of a thing which massively impacted an election (paying for social care) when it is not a thing that you average joe thinks about every day.