UK Politics

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

So Starmer has moved Labour so far to the right that the leader of Scottish Labour has to promise to "stand up" to him.

 

or just to appeal to nationalist vote.

[steviewevie]

12 hours ago, Ozanne said:

He is a lucky General that is for sure either that or he’s just so great at this political game 😉

He has been lucky, but it isn't all luck. It was kind of unlucky that the Israel Hamas thing kicked off just as the party conference was starting.

Thing is with Starmer he isn't popular, he is just less unpopular than Sunak. Maybe that will change when he gets in power, but with the state of everything I very much doubt it. Trust in politicians in general is very low at moment, we're ripe for a populist takeover.

Edited February 17, 2024 by steviewevie

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It's not the swing voters that want it, it's those that likely will not bother voting as increasing numbers see no point.

if people think starmer is dull, he looks exciting alongside RLB.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I was responding to a post that you made about about by elections LOL

Still, move the goalposts to fit your narrative.

 

PS Have you admitted yet that the Green pledge from Labour has been watered down/scrapped yet or are you still fixated that Labour are pefect?

I posted that Starmer was the most successful by-election Labour leader then you went and compared the votes from a by-election to a general election, which as you know aren't comparable.

Edited February 17, 2024 by kaosmark2
please keep the snark out

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

He has been lucky, but it isn't all luck. It was kind of unlucky that the Israel Hamas thing kicked off just as the party conference was starting.

Thing is with Starmer he isn't popular, he is just less unpopular than Sunak. Maybe that will change when he gets in power, but with the state of everything I very much doubt it. Trust in politicians in general is very low at moment, we're ripe for a populist takeover.

There is an element of luck but you have to have that to win in politics but yeah I agree it's not all luck. He has done wonders to get the Labour to the position it is in.

 

Some polls show he is moderately popular but yeah he isn't the most popular politician ever but you don't need to be you just need to beat the person/party in front of you.

We've had our populist, that was Johnson and didn't work out very well.

[cellar]

These results further support the suggestion of a Labour Majority come GE. If anyone still seriously thinks it'll be a Minority, you can get 11/2 on it now.

 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It's not the swing voters that want it, it's those that likely will not bother voting as increasing numbers see no point.

That’s a political calculation though, you may not like (or you may disagree with the calculation) but that is what is in play here. Labour are effectively sacrificing pro Corbyn voters thinking they can get more valuable (either total or in more competitive constituencies) people who voted Tory in 2019. You can definitely make an intellectual argument for this approach , whether it’s effective time will tell.

[steviewevie]

At this point the Tories look f**ked. The one thing they can hold onto is the don't knows in polls and low turnouts in these by-elections.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

He has been lucky, but it isn't all luck. It was kind of unlucky that the Israel Hamas thing kicked off just as the party conference was starting.

Thing is with Starmer he isn't popular, he is just less unpopular than Sunak. Maybe that will change when he gets in power, but with the state of everything I very much doubt it. Trust in politicians in general is very low at moment, we're ripe for a populist takeover.

Who could labour pick who would be really popular with the electorate? Maybe a flip  flopper like Burnham who flips left to centre when ever it suits him, then what happens when he is on power and he has to let people down.

I don’t see Starmer as popular or unpopular, people (in general) are not actively voting against him like they did with Jez. Instead of promising the earth (and letting everyone down) his approach seems to be to give him the opportunity and he will show what he can do in power.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Who could labour pick who would be really popular with the electorate? Maybe a flip  flopper like Burnham who flips left to centre when ever it suits him, then what happens when he is on power and he has to let people down.

I don’t see Starmer as popular or unpopular, people (in general) are not actively voting against him like they did with Jez. Instead of promising the earth (and letting everyone down) his approach seems to be to give him the opportunity and he will show what he can do in power.

Yeah, approach seems to be under promise and win election on back of Tories being total shite...which will likely mean a low turnout.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

At this point the Tories look f**ked. The one thing they can hold onto is the don't knows in polls and low turnouts in these by-elections.

You're a betting man, how many seats will the Tories end up on (range of 10)?

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

There is an element of luck but you have to have that to win in politics but yeah I agree it's not all luck. He has done wonders to get the Labour to the position it is in.

 

Some polls show he is moderately popular but yeah he isn't the most popular politician ever but you don't need to be you just need to beat the person/party in front of you.

We've had our populist, that was Johnson and didn't work out very well.

doesn't need to be popular, just needs to look like he's up to the job.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

doesn't need to be popular, just needs to look like he's up to the job.

Yeah exactly, you'd think the potential end of Tory rule would be a happy thing but I guess not for some.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

That’s a political calculation though, you may not like (or you may disagree with the calculation) but that is what is in play here. Labour are effectively sacrificing pro Corbyn voters thinking they can get more valuable (either total or in more competitive constituencies) people who voted Tory in 2019. You can definitely make an intellectual argument for this approach , whether it’s effective time will tell.

Who said anything about pro Corbyn voters? Not me.

Many who were interviewed were far from left wing Corbynites

[steviewevie]

33 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

You're a betting man, how many seats will the Tories end up on (range of 10)?

203

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah, approach seems to be under promise

better than overpromising and being unable to deliver (sunak).

[Nobody Interesting]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

I posted that Starmer was the most successful by-election Labour leader then you went and compared the votes from a by-election to a general election, which as you know aren't comparable.

So you still ignore the watering down or scrapping policies part and instead try a childish little jibe.

Get your head out the sand and stop blindly supporting a party that are now so like the Tories under Cameron we might as well have Cameron back. Labour ceased to be Labour when Labour became too scared to have any opinions or ideas that some in the media might attack.
 

Edited February 17, 2024 by kaosmark2
removed snark from both original and post

[pink_triangle]

13 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Who said anything about pro Corbyn voters? Not me.

Many who were interviewed were far from left wing Corbynites

Who were they then, what will these people do in a general election? At the end of the day if they live in the majority of constituencies in the country it won’t matter if they don’t vote, unfortunately that is the way our political system works.

Out of interest if your not a fan of Starmer, who do you think would be doing a better job?

 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So you still ignore the watering down or scrapping policies part and instead try a childish little jibe.

Get your head out the sand and stop blindly supporting a party that are now so like the Tories under Cameron we might as well have Cameron back. Labour ceased to be Labour when Labour became too scared to have any opinions or ideas that some in the media might attack.
 

Fight me!

Edited February 17, 2024 by kaosmark2
removed quoted snark

[Nobody Interesting]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Who were they then, what will these people do in a general election? At the end of the day if they live in the majority of constituencies in the country it won’t matter if they don’t vote, unfortunately that is the way our political system works.

Out of interest if your not a fan of Starmer, who do you think would be doing a better job?

 

I am not a fan of Labour or the Tories - 75 years of abject failure more or less between them. So as for who leads Labour, I really do not care as the party has lost it's way and is simply becoming a party simialr to Cameron's Tories.

The UK needs change, real change, and not just more years of the same policies that have failed being revamped and retried and failing again.

If I could have my perfect world then the Greens in power but as that will not happen in what is left of my lifetime I hope for a hung parliament so we can get lots of parties workig  together for the UK and not working for their party and it's backers.

[Nobody Interesting]

17 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Starmer is the most successful by-election Labour leader ever. 

Going back to the original post you shared - perhaps once in awhile you might like to fact check what you post.

Since Starmer has been Labour Leader there have been 21 by-elections.

Labour won 12 and lost 9

Still, don't let facts get in the way of your Starmer love fest

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So you still ignore the watering down or scrapping policies part and instead try a childish little jibe.

Get your head out the sand and stop blindly supporting a party that are now so like the Tories under Cameron we might as well have Cameron back. Labour ceased to be Labour when Labour became too scared to have any opinions or ideas that some in the media might attack.

Isn't it about time for another one of your 'I put people on ignore' posts LOL

I take it the lack of any further mention about by-elections votes means you realise you continue that nonsense anymore  

You’re the one that pretty much said a few months that you would vote Green even if it meant getting the Tories back in all because you don’t like Starmer. You would risk the Tories back in over a party that will actively change this country for the better. In my mind you are a Tory enabler. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Going back to the original post you shared - perhaps once in awhile you might like to fact check what you post.

Since Starmer has been Labour Leader there have been 21 by-elections.

Labour won 12 and lost 9

Still, don't let facts get in the way of your Starmer love fest

Sorry but Starmer is the most successful by-election Labour leader and much as that might annoy you!

Edited February 17, 2024 by Ozanne

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Sorry but Starmer is the most successful by-election Labour leader and much as that might annoy you!

LOL

So you have chosen to ignore the facts - one of which is that the stats you used choose which by elections to include and which to exclude. There have been 21, your list showed there only being 8.

Your list is therefore incomplete and selective and only proves what you want it to prove regardless of if it is true or not however much that might annoy you.

[Nobody Interesting]

13 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I take it the lack of any further mention about by-elections votes means you realise you continue that nonsense anymore  

You’re the one that pretty much said a few months that you would vote Green even if it meant getting the Tories back in all because you don’t like Starmer. You would risk the Tories back in over a party that will actively change this country for the better. In my mind you are a Tory enabler. 

Firstly I refer you to my other post about by elections that proves I did not ignore it - oh dear, don't you look silly.

Also I never said that about the Greens - in fact it was you who said it accusing me and others of backing  the Tories by voting Green.

And there you go alienating the very people Labour needs to vote for them by pathetic childish acusations of being Tory Enablers.

There is one person on here who does more harm to the Labour cause and that is you. It is you as you refuse to accept anything other than they are perfect and use selective statistics that 'prove' your point.

This forum became the Ozanne and Stevie thread and any newcomers get attacked - since I limited my posts I watched and saw you do it to others.

You are nasty little bullies who think this place is theirs and only their views count and when anyone dares to stand up to you the insults fly.

You and the Fish man really are no different - but you cannot see that.