UK Politics

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

except they're not.

They will do, it’s what a Labour government does. They just have to show the public that they will be sensible with the money first because the public miss-understand how economies work. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

They will do, it’s what a Labour government does. They just have to show the public that they will be sensible with the money first because the public miss-understand how economies work. 

yeah, but it's not something you should take by blind faith...if they're going to spend more they should promise it.

It's like people who blindly vote Tory because they believe they will always be sensible with the economy....

[Neil]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

except they're not.

yes they are.

[steviewevie]

that bloomberg bloke...looking like election later in year...more fiscal events and mad for it tax cutting until everyone says this is awesome more of this please f**k you starmer etc.

 

Edited March 5, 2024 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

yes they are.

oh no they're not.

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

oh no they're not.

so they plan to raise extra taxes (vat on private schools, end of non-dom) for no reason?

[kaosmark2]

17 minutes ago, Neil said:

greens reckon that will give them victory, can't see it, looks like less green support in the city now than 5 years ago.

There's a lot less Labour support than 5 years ago though. I'm seeing a lot more apathy, a lot more "they're all the same", and a lot of distrust in Starmer.

Add in the various protests, the huge amount of distrust into the police, and Starmer's general socially illiberal attitude, and I think it'll be narrow.

[Nobody Interesting]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but it's not something you should take by blind faith...if they're going to spend more they should promise it.

It's like people who blindly vote Tory because they believe they will always be sensible with the economy....

THIS^^^^

[steviewevie]

who gives a sh*t that you can't get a doctors appointment and your kid's school is falling apart when you have a few hundred quid extra in your wage packet to spend on netflix/prime/disney+/apple/nowtv.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but it's not something you should take by blind faith...if they're going to spend more they should promise it.

It's like people who blindly vote Tory because they believe they will always be sensible with the economy....

They’ve given me no reason to think they won’t. Besides Labour know that better public services to ensure they get a 2nd term and the way to do that is through increased spending. They have to say they’ll be sensible with public spending now because the public incorrectly think Britain has little money left and the media will jump on the chance to claim Labour are going to spend lots.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

so they plan to raise extra taxes (vat on private schools, end of non-dom) for no reason?

good point.

But, currently that will not even hit the sides.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

There's a lot less Labour support than 5 years ago though. I'm seeing a lot more apathy, a lot more "they're all the same", and a lot of distrust in Starmer.

Add in the various protests, the huge amount of distrust into the police, and Starmer's general socially illiberal attitude, and I think it'll be narrow.

it might be narrow i just don't see it as the easy win which is being claimed. lot of slagging off for the greens on the Bristol reddit.

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

good point.

But, currently that will not even hit the sides.

i can't remember what for, but aren't there promises for where those amounts (even if small) will get spent.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

They’ve given me no reason to think they won’t. Besides Labour know that better public services to ensure they get a 2nd term and the way to do that is through increased spending. They have to say they’ll be sensible with public spending now because the public incorrectly think Britain has little money left and the media will jump on the chance to claim Labour are going to spend lots.

yes...I mean that is what I hope too. Interested to know what they say after this budget and during an election campaign, because currently there will need to be cuts...and Tories obviously think they can get Labour on this.

[Neil]

11 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

THIS^^^^

or people who support the greens while blind to what they actually do - some of us are talking about what labour has said it will do, increase a few taxes and spend the extra income! have to ask why some have welcomed the extra taxatioin if they won't get a benefit!

Edited March 5, 2024 by Neil

[Nobody Interesting]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

who gives a sh*t that you can't get a doctors appointment and your kid's school is falling apart when you have a few hundred quid extra in your wage packet to spend on netflix/prime/disney+/apple/nowtv.

All too true for huge chunks of the electorate.

Take £4000 from each of them, give them back £400 5 years later and tell them you are great.

Welcome to the world of politics where the truth no longer matters and there is rarely any real change in what happens.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

All too true for huge chunks of the electorate.

Take £4000 from each of them, give them back £400 5 years later and tell them you are great.

Welcome to the world of politics where the truth no longer matters and there is rarely any real change in what happens.

hello Donald, your fake news is too obvious.

 

if there won't be any change why do you want the incompetent greens. - it'd just be different coloured incompetence.

[kaosmark2]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

it might be narrow i just don't see it as the easy win which is being claimed. lot of slagging off for the greens on the Bristol reddit.

Social media is generally angry people with too much time on their hands. Particularly location-based social media.

I'm acquainted with a few of the local green campaigners, and they don't think it's an easy win at all, they think they can make it a hard fought seat and are aiming for victory.

Starmer pissed off a lot of people with going on about knife crime last visit and evading questions about bus service and housing. Add in pro-cop anti-protest comments, and standing by racists and homophobes and I don't see a high turnout from Labour voters in Bristol Central. I genuinely don't know if Greens will be able to mobilise their vote and convince half-arsed voters to vote for them over staying at home.

[steviewevie]

maybe I'm naive and stupid and centrist dad etc but with Starmer/Labour the strategy has obviously been that they need to win over people who voted Tory last time ...and that isn't just red wall brexity boris loving voters, but blue wall liberal tories......and in doing that they've obviously f**ked off many on the left...it's like that the coalition if too wide that something has to give....and with them going hard on the whole antisemitism thing and then the unconditional support for Israel in Gaza something feels permanently broken...and not sure that is coming back whilst Starmer and his team control the party. So, Labour can maybe stay in power whilst Tory party go through their inevitable existential crisis...but once they sort themselves out and and get another Cameron type...they'll be back (or we'll go populist right like everywhere else which is also very possible).

[Neil]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

Social media is generally angry people with too much time on their hands. Particularly location-based social media.

I'm acquainted with a few of the local green campaigners, and they don't think it's an easy win at all, they think they can make it a hard fought seat and are aiming for victory.

its some of the know nuthuin's posting here claiming it as a certain win.

mostly the greens are aiming too many trees at the voters, and the voters don't like it,.

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

Starmer pissed off a lot of people with going on about knife crime last visit and evading questions about bus service and housing. Add in pro-cop anti-protest comments, and standing by racists and homophobes and I don't see a high turnout from Labour voters in Bristol Central. I genuinely don't know if Greens will be able to mobilise their vote and convince half-arsed voters to vote for them over staying at home.

used to see loads of green posters in windows, barely see them now. knife crime was probably topical. busses are always sh*t, people moaning about them since i arrived in Bristol. housing is no easy fix but slow progress is being made a lot of building going on (my house is going  on the market v. soon). greens won't fix those problems any better than marv.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

maybe I'm naive and stupid and centrist dad etc but with Starmer/Labour the strategy has obviously been that they need to win over people who voted Tory last time ...and that isn't just red wall brexity boris loving voters, but blue wall liberal tories......and in doing that they've obviously f**ked off many on the left...it's like that the coalition if too wide that something has to give....and with them going hard on the whole antisemitism thing and then the unconditional support for Israel in Gaza something feels permanently broken...and not sure that is coming back whilst Starmer and his team control the party. So, Labour can maybe stay in power whilst Tory party go through their inevitable existential crisis...but once they sort themselves out and and get another Cameron type...they'll be back (or we'll go populist right like everywhere else which is also very possible).

The Tories will change leader and it will be far right populist vs a, as you say, Cameron type.  The more moderate will lose as the party members who will decide are more to the right now than 5 years ago.

The trouble is that much of the electorate is also more to the right and those Red Wall folks do seem to like Farage and his not too nice policies so if Labour do not do things if/when in power to keep them happy then they could well be in a lot of trouble - as will the UK if a Far Right Tory government is elected.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes...I mean that is what I hope too. Interested to know what they say after this budget and during an election campaign, because currently there will need to be cuts...and Tories obviously think they can get Labour on this.

There doesn’t need to be cuts, the Tories are choosing to do implement more cuts. Besides Labour have already announced policies where they’ll have to spend money so to say that Labour won’t spend just isn’t correct. 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

maybe I'm naive and stupid and centrist dad etc but with Starmer/Labour the strategy has obviously been that they need to win over people who voted Tory last time ...and that isn't just red wall brexity boris loving voters, but blue wall liberal tories......and in doing that they've obviously f**ked off many on the left...it's like that the coalition if too wide that something has to give....and with them going hard on the whole antisemitism thing and then the unconditional support for Israel in Gaza something feels permanently broken...and not sure that is coming back whilst Starmer and his team control the party. So, Labour can maybe stay in power whilst Tory party go through their inevitable existential crisis...but once they sort themselves out and and get another Cameron type...they'll be back (or we'll go populist right like everywhere else which is also very possible).

they dumped the unrealistic, difficult policies in favour of competent deliverable  govt. tory party will be back, but will do a hauge/howard /IDS thing again first. as they try to fund a human being to take them forwards.

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

There doesn’t need to be cuts, the Tories are choosing to do implement more cuts. Besides Labour have already announced policies where they’ll have to spend money so to say that Labour won’t spend just isn’t correct. 

well this is what will be argued. Will they reverse the spending cuts that government have effectively pencilled in with tax cuts in this and previous budgets, and if going to where is that money coming from if they're not going to put up taxes....economy is flat, debt is high, interest in repaying that debt is high, aging population, global instability.

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Neil said:

they dumped the unrealistic, difficult policies in favour of competent deliverable  govt. tory party will be back, but will do a hauge/howard /IDS thing again first. as they try to fund a human being to take them forwards.

you see this is what worries me...I fear that Labour support is soft because they have lost a lot of left/young/green voters already....so might just be at the IDS stage when the Tories get back in.