International Politics

[fred quimby]

14 hours ago, gizmoman said:

"your body belongs to you and no one can decide for you." Incredible hipocrisy, how many were forced to take the Covid jab against their will or lose their job? No bodily autonomy when it suits them.

Seem to upvote that but hey.

I hear where you are coming from but believe they are such different examples. Pregnant v infectious disease 

[steviewevie]

Plus, how else you going to get everyone chipped?

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, fred quimby said:

Seem to upvote that but hey.

I hear where you are coming from but believe they are such different examples. Pregnant v infectious disease 

There's also the thing of vaccines against infectious diseases don't just impact the person taking the vaccine. They drastically affect the spread of the disease and help create societal immunity for those that aren't actually capable (for whatever reason) of taking the vaccine.

Not taking a vaccine citing "my choice" is like walking into a hospital ward for infants with lung problems and chain-smoking. That choice is killing innocent vulnerable people.

Taking medically approved vaccines to prevent the spread of infectious diseases is a social responsibility, and if you opt out of doing so, I would say that that is part of opting out of society.

[fred quimby]

28 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

There's also the thing of vaccines against infectious diseases don't just impact the person taking the vaccine. They drastically affect the spread of the disease and help create societal immunity for those that aren't actually capable (for whatever reason) of taking the vaccine.

Not taking a vaccine citing "my choice" is like walking into a hospital ward for infants with lung problems and chain-smoking. That choice is killing innocent vulnerable people.

Taking medically approved vaccines to prevent the spread of infectious diseases is a social responsibility, and if you opt out of doing so, I would say that that is part of opting out of society.

Said better than I did 😀

The 2 are very different things. 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[kaosmark2]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

I'm gonna say it again in case it bears repeating:

I don't think that anyone who's expressing sympathy for the people getting bombed in Gaza thinks anything positive about Hamas. It's possible to think that both Hamas and the Israeli govt and IDF are monstrous, and behaving horrendously. This isn't a thing of "both-sidesing" or "Jews bad". Hamas are an evil terrorist organisation committing atrocities and using the Palestinian people as a meat shield for their cause.

Simultaneously, Israel are indiscriminately bombing people, committing war crimes, and targeting relief aid to enact a desired genocide and expansionism. Both the Israeli govt and Hamas are perfectly happy with the human suffering that's occurring because they take advantage of it to persuade people of their own cause. It's horrific.

I am not in the slightest surprised when evidence comes out of sexual assaults and rapes committed by Hamas, nor when it comes out about the IDF. It's entirely in keeping with all of their behaviour, not just over recent months, but over the last few decades. They're filled with monsters who dehumanise and use people in all sorts of ways.

Calling out atrocities from one side does not mean excusing them from the other side. It just means calling out those atrocities. No whataboutery, none of it.

Hamas are evil pieces of sh*t.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Plus, how else you going to get everyone chipped?

What is bill going to do when he's stroking the white cat if he cant control you like a video game?

[steviewevie]

39 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'm gonna say it again in case it bears repeating:

I don't think that anyone who's expressing sympathy for the people getting bombed in Gaza thinks anything positive about Hamas. It's possible to think that both Hamas and the Israeli govt and IDF are monstrous, and behaving horrendously. This isn't a thing of "both-sidesing" or "Jews bad". Hamas are an evil terrorist organisation committing atrocities and using the Palestinian people as a meat shield for their cause.

Simultaneously, Israel are indiscriminately bombing people, committing war crimes, and targeting relief aid to enact a desired genocide and expansionism. Both the Israeli govt and Hamas are perfectly happy with the human suffering that's occurring because they take advantage of it to persuade people of their own cause. It's horrific.

I am not in the slightest surprised when evidence comes out of sexual assaults and rapes committed by Hamas, nor when it comes out about the IDF. It's entirely in keeping with all of their behaviour, not just over recent months, but over the last few decades. They're filled with monsters who dehumanise and use people in all sorts of ways.

Calling out atrocities from one side does not mean excusing them from the other side. It just means calling out those atrocities. No whataboutery, none of it.

Hamas are evil pieces of sh*t.

well yeah...which is why it needs an intervention...too much dehumanising hatred from both sides. Just feels like needs international forces involving US and surrounding arab countries in there, to secure the border and govern and rebuild Gaza...and then go from there. Just doesn't feel they're ever going to agree to a lasting ceasefire.

[gizmoman]

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

There's also the thing of vaccines against infectious diseases don't just impact the person taking the vaccine. They drastically affect the spread of the disease and help create societal immunity for those that aren't actually capable (for whatever reason) of taking the vaccine.

Not taking a vaccine citing "my choice" is like walking into a hospital ward for infants with lung problems and chain-smoking. That choice is killing innocent vulnerable people.

Taking medically approved vaccines to prevent the spread of infectious diseases is a social responsibility, and if you opt out of doing so, I would say that that is part of opting out of society.

Really? Have you learned nothing in the last 2+ years? The covid vax never prevented the spread of the disease, even the manufacturers never claimed that, at best it reduced the effect on those infected, leading to fewer hospitalisations. The "take the vax to protect others" was pure propaganda with no scientific basis, we were lied to.

Edited March 5 by gizmoman
sp

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Really? Have you learned nothing in the last 2+ years? The covid vax never prevented the spread of the disease, even the manufacturers never claimed that, at best it reduced the effect on those infected, leading to fewer hospitalisations. The "take the vax to protect others" was pure propaganda with no scientific basis, we were lied to.

thought it did reduce transmission for first few months or something...?

[kaosmark2]

21 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Really? Have you learned nothing in the last 2+ years? The covid vax never prevented the spread of the disease, even the manufacturers never claimed that, at best it reduced the effect on those infected, leading to fewer hospitalisations. The "take the vax to protect others" was pure propaganda with no scientific basis, we were lied to.

Have you learned nothing in the last 200 years? Smallpox, measles, etc.

The impact of the COVID vaccine is impossible to know because we can't have a control sample to compare it to, we can't repeat the outbreak, etc etc. But vaccines work, some reduce the impact of infection and chance of hospitalisation, others reduce spread. Anti-viral vaccines do generally reduce but not remove transmission, but it depends on modes of infection, rate of mutation, and viral load.

There's also just basic things, like if your cough isn't as intense, you're not going to project COVID particles as far, but maybe you go out more often so infect people the same amount.

[gizmoman]

5 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Have you learned nothing in the last 200 years? Smallpox, measles, etc.

The impact of the COVID vaccine is impossible to know because we can't have a control sample to compare it to, we can't repeat the outbreak, etc etc. But vaccines work, some reduce the impact of infection and chance of hospitalisation, others reduce spread. Anti-viral vaccines do generally reduce but not remove transmission, but it depends on modes of infection, rate of mutation, and viral load.

There's also just basic things, like if your cough isn't as intense, you're not going to project COVID particles as far, but maybe you go out more often so infect people the same amount.

Of course vaccines work, even this new mRna vaccine worked to a limited degree, but the virus mutated and continued to infect people, the point is the vaccine mandates were unjustifed. People should have the right to decide for themselves,

[Neil]

22 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Have you learned nothing in the last 200 years? Smallpox, measles, etc.

The impact of the COVID vaccine is impossible to know because we can't have a control sample to compare it to, we can't repeat the outbreak, etc etc. But vaccines work, some reduce the impact of infection and chance of hospitalisation, others reduce spread. Anti-viral vaccines do generally reduce but not remove transmission, but it depends on modes of infection, rate of mutation, and viral load.

There's also just basic things, like if your cough isn't as intense, you're not going to project COVID particles as far, but maybe you go out more often so infect people the same amount.

its been said that nothing was reducing the spread (face masks/closing schools/vaccines/etc), but the spread has reduced. some of those claims are wrong against the fact of reduced spread.

Edited March 5 by Neil

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

well yeah...which is why it needs an intervention...too much dehumanising hatred from both sides. Just feels like needs international forces involving US and surrounding arab countries in there, to secure the border and govern and rebuild Gaza...and then go from there. Just doesn't feel they're ever going to agree to a lasting ceasefire.

 

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

no good calling for an intervention without saying who you think should do the job?

[Neil]

Saddam is killing the Kurds and marsh Arabs, someone should intervene.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

no good calling for an intervention without saying who you think should do the job?

I did say, international force... mostly US plus surrounding Arab countries...also Turkey, hell get Iran involved too.

Edited March 5 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Saddam is killing the Kurds and marsh Arabs, someone should intervene.

Wasn't same scale, and wasn't an ally.

[steviewevie]

Anyway...what a legend...

 

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I did say, international force... mostly US plus surrounding Arab countries...also Turkey, hell get Iran involved too.

there's no way Israel would accept neighbouring Arab countries, there's no way USA will do it after what happened in Lebanon

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Wasn't same scale, and wasn't an ally.

doesn't make a difference would be the same disaster.

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, Neil said:

there's no way Israel would accept neighbouring Arab countries, there's no way USA will do it after what happened in Lebanon

Well maybe that's tough sh*t... because at the moment if Israel go into Rafah during Ramadan then Boom. Surrounding Arab countries need to be involved, they will probably need to take over running of Gaza, and maybe West Bank too. Israel needs to get out, and that's where US comes in, to provide security needed.

[Neil]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Well maybe that's tough sh*t... because at the moment if Israel go into Rafah during Ramadan then Boom. Surrounding Arab countries need to be involved, they will probably need to take over running of Gaza, and maybe West Bank too. Israel needs to get out, and that's where US comes in, to provide security needed.

Us would just be another occupier.

[steviewevie]

9 hours ago, Neil said:

Us would just be another occupier.

Arab countries would have to be the occupiers...but US there to provide some security/threat...would need to be lots of carrots and some sticks to get all sides involved. Not sure we can rely and trust on Hamas and Israel to play nice.