Football 2024/25

[charlierc]

José Mourinho wants Newcastle manager’s job if Eddie Howe leaves | José Mourinho | The Guardian

 

Well, this is a turn. Even if I would've been way more excited about the idea of Mourinho at SJP before his difficult spells in Manchester and with Spurs, and just seeing him sulking in Turkey still in the same funk as he has had for a while now.

[thetime]

30 minutes ago, charlierc said:

José Mourinho wants Newcastle manager’s job if Eddie Howe leaves | José Mourinho | The Guardian

 

Well, this is a turn. Even if I would've been way more excited about the idea of Mourinho at SJP before his difficult spells in Manchester and with Spurs, and just seeing him sulking in Turkey still in the same funk as he has had for a while now.

 

His arrogance is crazy and makes him look pretty silly nowadays.

 

It was all very well 15 years ago when he was a top manager. He hasn't won a league title in 10 years or champions league in 15 years.

 

He is just another manager who couldn't move from 1 generation to the next when football moved on. 

 

It's why Ancelotti is the best in my lifetime for me. Has there ever been a manager who has won European cup/champions league 20 years apart. 

Edited Friday at 01:07 PM by thetime

[charlierc]

6 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

His arrogance is crazy and makes him look pretty silly nowadays.

 

It was all very well 15 years ago when he was a top manager. He hasn't won a league title in 10 years or champions league in 15 years.

 

He is just another manager who couldn't move from 1 generation to the next when football moved on. 

 

It's why Ancelotti is the best in my lifetime for me. Has there ever been a manager who has won European cup/champions league 20 years apart. 

Right? It's wild how much he thinks he's above the Turkish league having only managed there for 4 months, being five points behind early leaders Galatasaray having also lost to them a few games ago and when that was literally his best offer after being fired by Roma in January with the team way off the pace to qualify for the Champions League.

 

Once, I liked the idea of him coming to Newcastle - as has been noted, he worked with club icon Bobby Robson when Robson worked in Spain and Portugal and it is seen as an error that the board at SJP refused Robson's request to bring a young Mourinho to Newcastle in 2001 when we had a coaching staff reshuffle. But now? He's past it and it just seems to be too much of a "me, me, me, me" show

 

... admittedly I can talk given I make so many comments in this thread and they are nearly all about Newcastle United.

[thetime]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Right? It's wild how much he thinks he's above the Turkish league having only managed there for 4 months, being five points behind early leaders Galatasaray having also lost to them a few games ago and when that was literally his best offer after being fired by Roma in January with the team way off the pace to qualify for the Champions League.

 

Once, I liked the idea of him coming to Newcastle - as has been noted, he worked with club icon Bobby Robson when Robson worked in Spain and Portugal and it is seen as an error that the board at SJP refused Robson's request to bring a young Mourinho to Newcastle in 2001 when we had a coaching staff reshuffle. But now? He's past it and it just seems to be too much of a "me, me, me, me" show

 

... admittedly I can talk given I make so many comments in this thread and they are nearly all about Newcastle United.

 

Would it be a bad choice for Newcastle? Added exposure to the project is perhaps what they need. As they seem to have stagnated somewhat. 

 

 

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Would it be a bad choice for Newcastle? Added exposure to the project is perhaps what they need. As they seem to have stagnated somewhat. 

 

I mean, if we beat Forest tomorrow, we'd move to within a point of them, which would be good given Forest are currently third and there's not a lot in the table after 10 games, plus we were good enough to beat Arsenal and Chelsea (admittedly their reserves) in the last two games. The issue is more with player recruitment imo. But equally, season still has a way to go to know for sure. It's not like we're with Wolves at the bottom and still on zero wins.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

I mean, if we beat Forest tomorrow, we'd move to within a point of them, which would be good given Forest are currently third and there's not a lot in the table after 10 games, plus we were good enough to beat Arsenal and Chelsea (admittedly their reserves) in the last two games. The issue is more with player recruitment imo. But equally, season still has a way to go to know for sure. It's not like we're with Wolves at the bottom and still on zero wins.

 

I think it's a general feeling rather than a weekly scenario. Are the owners happy with maybe getting the occasional Europa league or conference league qualification? With the outlay and the razzmatazz of the takeover, I would say they expect more. 

 

As currently the Champions league season you had, seems way off and was the exception due to teams being in transition. 

 

At the minute Newcastle are in the batch of teams that could finish 5th or 10th. Which isn't a million miles away from Ashley midtable finishes under bruce and rafa, with spending no money.  

 

 

 

 

[kaosmark2]

On 11/8/2024 at 3:16 PM, thetime said:

 

Would it be a bad choice for Newcastle? Added exposure to the project is perhaps what they need. As they seem to have stagnated somewhat. 

Absolutely it'd be a bad choice. Think of how often you talk about the problems at Man U and how there's short-term signings with no long-term vision. Mourinho would bring all of that, and I don't think he's any likelier to bring a trophy.

[thetime]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Absolutely it'd be a bad choice. Think of how often you talk about the problems at Man U and how there's short-term signings with no long-term vision. Mourinho would bring all of that, and I don't think he's any likelier to bring a trophy.

 

I was thinking more in the line of exposure it would bring. 

 

Also the level of trophies Jose is still doing well at, is perhaps what Newcastle should be aiming at. Won the Conference and a final in the Europa with Roma, also winning the Europa at United. 

 

Winning the Carabao with utd, getting to the final with spurs(sacked few days before). 

 

 

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, thetime said:

 

I was thinking more in the line of exposure it would bring. 

 

Also the level of trophies Jose is still doing well at, is perhaps what Newcastle should be aiming at. Won the Conference and a final in the Europa with Roma, also winning the Europa at United. 

 

Winning the Carabao with utd, getting to the final with spurs(sacked few days before). 

 

 

I'm not sure the exposure is really what we need tbh. I mean, we're a Premier League side so by default are competing in the most watched league in world football and it's richest, with one of the noisiest and most permanently online fanbases in English football. Plus Mourinho's abrasive personality and increasingly out-of-it tactics don't seem like we we want. I know he won stuff at Roma, but they clearly didn't see that as enough to counterbalance two P6 finishes in Serie A for a team that was among it's biggest spenders.

 

To this point...

 

8 hours ago, thetime said:

At the minute Newcastle are in the batch of teams that could finish 5th or 10th. Which isn't a million miles away from Ashley midtable finishes under bruce and rafa, with spending no money.  

... It's not quite the same. Between Ashley taking over in 2007 and leaving in 2021, we managed just three top half finishes in the PL, and none in back-to-back seasons. Even just getting a third top half finish in a row, as bad as it sounds, is still progress.

 

But even then, I think we are still capable of fighting at the top level in the PL. At the risk of reducing it all to week-by-week stuff, we've won games this season against teams we're competing for the European places with and were only a few missed opportunities away from beating Brighton, Man City and Everton. Beat Forest tomorrow and we'd only be a point off a team that has admittedly made a remarkable start (come on Manager of the Month curse).

 

I think we're handicapped a little by recruitment choices and an odd attempt earlier this season to play slower, but the gloom has lifted a little after a sense of ennui a few weeks back. So I don't think we're necessarily out of the count yet. I know the Champions League season was right place right time, but you could argue it also was for Aston Villa last season and they still seem happy to be on an upwards trajectory.

[thetime]

22 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I'm not sure the exposure is really what we need tbh. I mean, we're a Premier League side so by default are competing in the most watched league in world football and it's richest, with one of the noisiest and most permanently online fanbases in English football. Plus Mourinho's abrasive personality and increasingly out-of-it tactics don't seem like we we want. I know he won stuff at Roma, but they clearly didn't see that as enough to counterbalance two P6 finishes in Serie A for a team that was among it's biggest spenders.

 

 

 

I don't think having a noisy and online presence will attract the required level of player to be honest. 

 

That will take a big name manager with a big reputation, like keegan in the 90s. Newcastle will always struggle to attract the players, compared to a London and Manchester. 

 

The good ones will also be picked off, like Isak and Bruno for example. Will they take the odd European adventure, when they can go to teams that can compete. 

 

Whenever Howe is sacked, I don't think it's imminent. Like you say a win or 2 more you will be in top 6 or 7. Likewise couple of defeats it will be the bottom 6 or 7. 

 

Very tight around 3rd and 12th. 

[thetime]

Here I am on the graveyard shift at work, looking at villa stats.

 

They seem to have fallen off pretty quickly. Only 1 league win since September and 4 straight defeats in all competitions. 

[charlierc]

11 hours ago, thetime said:

That will take a big name manager with a big reputation, like keegan in the 90s. Newcastle will always struggle to attract the players, compared to a London and Manchester. 

The Keegan case was different - that was his first job as a manager, coming 8 years (I think?) after he retired as a player, ironically after a final 2 years playing for Newcastle. But it unquestionably had its perks if he could assemble the team that should've won the 95/96 title and then helped persuade Shearer to pick Newcastle over a good 5/6 other offers.

6 hours ago, thetime said:

Here I am on the graveyard shift at work, looking at villa stats.

 

They seem to have fallen off pretty quickly. Only 1 league win since September and 4 straight defeats in all competitions. 

It is helping me see parallels tbf. Last season, what happened with Newcastle is the Champions League added to our workload to create a player selection crisis, both in terms of injuries and people having to play more games than ideal due to the alternatives all being unavailable. We seemed to have 10+ players injured for most of the way after about late October/early November, and to nearly get a top 6 finish was still ok despite the sense a fitter squad could've done better.

 

But squads that aren't ready for Europe tend to have their problems. There's been lots of teams qualify for Europe, underestimate the physical exertions of all the extra games (something exacerbated this season with the Champions and Europa Leagues having more games) and struggle. Villa had started well enough but it is starting to seize up, even with the bizarre penalty that saw them lost in the Champions League.

 

Indeed, we're seeing it elsewhere - injuries have gummed up Arsenal's momentum and judging by 4 straight defeats, Manchester City's isn't going much better.

[kaosmark2]

14 hours ago, thetime said:

 

I don't think having a noisy and online presence will attract the required level of player to be honest. 

 

That will take a big name manager with a big reputation, like keegan in the 90s. Newcastle will always struggle to attract the players, compared to a London and Manchester. 

 

The good ones will also be picked off, like Isak and Bruno for example. Will they take the odd European adventure, when they can go to teams that can compete. 

 

Whenever Howe is sacked, I don't think it's imminent. Like you say a win or 2 more you will be in top 6 or 7. Likewise couple of defeats it will be the bottom 6 or 7. 

 

Very tight around 3rd and 12th. 

I mean, they haven't been picked off yet, what's needed is a good scouting network to keep trying to find good players like them. It's part of why I'm so salty about selling Minteh and spending all summer fruitlessly chasing Guehi.

[charlierc]

48 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I mean, they haven't been picked off yet, what's needed is a good scouting network to keep trying to find good players like them. It's part of why I'm so salty about selling Minteh and spending all summer fruitlessly chasing Guehi.

Not sure if he'd be worth another go now given Guehi has looked off it with Crystal Palace's iffy start.

 

Though it makes me think Joachim Andersen might've been worth a go given Palace sold him for less than half what they wanted for Guehi and he's looked pretty good so far this season at Fulham.

Edited Sunday at 01:01 PM by charlierc

[kaosmark2]

50 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Not sure if he'd be worth another go now given Guehi has looked off it with Crystal Palace's iffy start.

 

Though it makes me think Joachim Andersen might've been worth a go given Palace sold him for less than half what they wanted for Guehi and he's looked pretty good so far this season at Fulham.

Depends how much his price has dropped with Palace's poor form and his contract running down.

[charlierc]

Well, all the talk of Newcastle and us dominating the chat, so let's carry on. Good win today at Forest, particularly with a good second half and not getting too down about being behind at the break.

[thetime]

21 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Well, all the talk of Newcastle and us dominating the chat, so let's carry on. Good win today at Forest, particularly with a good second half and not getting too down about being behind at the break.

 

Crazy league this season, how on earth utd are 4 points of 3rd is a bit crazy. 

[charlierc]

19 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

Crazy league this season, how on earth utd are 4 points of 3rd is a bit crazy. 

Everyone's taking points off of one another. Does make you think a European place will very much be up for grabs for anyone that can get a half-decent run together.

[thetime]

9 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Everyone's taking points off of one another. Does make you think a European place will very much be up for grabs for anyone that can get a half-decent run together.

 

Yeah it's like we discussed yesterday, couple of wins/defeats you could be in top 6 or 12th/13th.

 

 

[kaosmark2]

The Christmas run will be big. I think a lot of the teams that are up there but aren't in Europe will struggle in that, it's a period where 2-3 injuries can chain into the whole squad getting tired.

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Crazy league this season, how on earth utd are 4 points of 3rd is a bit crazy. 

It’s amazing Liverpool are top with a buffer, having changed manager and using the same squad as last season. They haven’t been spectacular, but they are getting the job done.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

The Christmas run will be big. I think a lot of the teams that are up there but aren't in Europe will struggle in that, it's a period where 2-3 injuries can chain into the whole squad getting tired.

Feels like we could be in a cycle going forward where extra European games wears out anyone who has to play the extra games.

 

Unless you're Chelsea and have so many players you can create a league team and cup team and make 11 changes for each game, apparently.

[pink_triangle]

34 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Feels like we could be in a cycle going forward where extra European games wears out anyone who has to play the extra games.

 

Unless you're Chelsea and have so many players you can create a league team and cup team and make 11 changes for each game, apparently.

Looking at the teams in the conference league, Chelsea would really have to mess up to not win that this season.

[Gnomicide]

David Coote has a few interesting days ahead of him.

[charlierc]

21 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Looking at the teams in the conference league, Chelsea would really have to mess up to not win that this season.

Tbf no English club has won it yet despite them being at the top end of names you'd expect to challenge for it. Spurs I think really should've done better when they competing in it a few years back.

 

But yeah with the budget and player quality, they've absolutely done something wrong if they don't win it.