festival traders- its tough out there.

[Neil]

i juast saw this article, which reminded me of a chat i had with a trader a few days ago, he said it now harder to get into festivals than  it is into the usa .

off the back of what he said which included having police checks , i checked with an  festivals markets expert i know, who confirmed its true about police checks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3d958247g9o

 

it'll be a real shame to lose the colour and diversity that these small traders bring to festivals.

 

[faymondo]

My missus and her mates normally spend a small fortune at the "Disco Beads" shop and say hello to the woman who runs it. They had decided to give this year a miss. 

[Iphigenia]

It's a real shame. A good selection of small traders can make a festival. Soon we'll see McDonalds stands at festivals, I bet.

[Alvoram]

42 minutes ago, Neil said:

i juast saw this article, which reminded me of a chat i had with a trader a few days ago, he said it now harder to get into festivals than  it is into the usa .

off the back of what he said which included having police checks , i checked with an  festivals markets expert i know, who confirmed its true about police checks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3d958247g9o

 

it'll be a real shame to lose the colour and diversity that these small traders bring to festivals.

 

For me the traders are as important as the music or camping... There's something magical about the market areas, the diversity and quality of food and other goods on offer. 

I eat every meal from the independant food stalls, and I love it. Think of it almost as a food festival too. It's like Epcot's international food festival, if anybody has ever done that. Only much much better, and supporting small independants. However, I did notice much less queuing this year, and wondered if I was just getting lucky. If not, then that can't be a great sign for the traders.  

[incident]

23 minutes ago, Iphigenia said:

It's a real shame. A good selection of small traders can make a festival. Soon we'll see McDonalds stands at festivals, I bet.

 

There's certainly a breaking point coming, but I'm not so sure about big brands moving in. Several of them have tried at times, and it's never really stuck. McDonalds, Nandos, Dominos have all dipped their toes into festivals (not Glastonbury) in the past, and there's probably others I can't remember right now. None of them really stuck with it, and the only chains (I can think of) that currently have a presence on the Festival circuit are the ones that have roots there - places like Pieminster and Patty & Bun.

 

I'd guess it's just too much hassle to organise setup, staffing, training, etc for something that's only going to be open 3-5 days. When McDonalds did it before, it seemed like they treated it more like a marketing exercise than a serious attempt to run a festival food stall.

[stuie]

I know some of the fashion retailers that sell their own work and they say that they’ve had a sh*t year this year - even at the festivals where there’s a high spend. 
 

Thankfully I still have some spare cash and I always like to buy a couple of items a year for my festival wardrobe 😂 

one of them is making me a waistcoat that I fell in love with but was a bit too chubby for at Wilderness! 🙈

 

I wish more people would support these traders for their festival stuff rather than keep making Jeff Bezos richer every summer.  The items are much better quality and in some cases completely unique. 

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Alvoram said:

For me the traders are as important as the music or camping... There's something magical about the market areas, the diversity and quality of food and other goods on offer. 

I eat every meal from the independant food stalls, and I love it. Think of it almost as a food festival too. It's like Epcot's international food festival, if anybody has ever done that. Only much much better, and supporting small independants. However, I did notice much less queuing this year, and wondered if I was just getting lucky. If not, then that can't be a great sign for the traders.  

less queuing might be because they're only taking cards thru the festival's card reader so the festival can take a true cut.

[Neil]

as some festivals are now doing police checks on traders its probably won't be long before they do that for staff too.

[Ayrshire Chris]

It would be sad if we lost some of the quirky small traders, food outlets etc that have been part of the ethos of the festival over the years. It’s a joy wandering around chatting to the stall holders and buying from them. Hopefully the festival resists the temptation to allow in the big corporate operators and continues to support local businesses. I’m sure they will, they need to ensure the site fees allow the traders to be profitable. 

[stuie]

21 minutes ago, Neil said:

less queuing might be because they're only taking cards thru the festival's card reader so the festival can take a true cut.

Glastonbury don’t issue card readers or take a cut. That’s pretty much talking about Boomtown I think? 

[Alvoram]

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

Glastonbury don’t issue card readers or take a cut. That’s pretty much talking about Boomtown I think? 

I got told Download do too 😕 Though I don't think it was a particularly reliable source. 

[incident]

44 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

I got told Download do too 😕 Though I don't think it was a particularly reliable source. 

 

As far as I'm aware, all of the FR/LN festivals do this now and have done so for a few years.

 

 

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Glastonbury don’t issue card readers or take a cut. That’s pretty much talking about Boomtown I think? 

 

Boomtown are far worse than the other FR/LN festivals, in that they force everyone into using a closed shop wristband payments system, where customers have to create an account and deposit money with them so they've got full visibility and control over everything and can track what each individual spends, where and when.

 

Yes, Boomtown is the festival that just 6 years ago was warning about how data gathering and surveillance was a threat to civilisation, and are now by some distance the worst offender on the circuit in those regards.

 

Edit to add: Might as well chuck in there that reportedly, according to traders at this years festival, the percentage that Boomtown keeps from each transaction is 30% from regular balances and 50% for crew balances (ie the ones provided by the festival or agency for workers meals). That's in addition to any pitch fees.

Edited August 18 by incident

[FKA SOSOTWS]

7 hours ago, Iphigenia said:

It's a real shame. A good selection of small traders can make a festival. Soon we'll see McDonalds stands at festivals, I bet.

 

Already the case in mainland Europe.

 

 

[clarkete]

3 hours ago, incident said:

Edit to add: Might as well chuck in there that reportedly, according to traders at this years festival, the percentage that Boomtown keeps from each transaction is 30% from regular balances and 50% for crew balances (ie the ones provided by the festival or agency for workers meals). That's in addition to any pitch fees.

Crikey that's up with the Apple app store innit?

[Paul ™]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

as some festivals are now doing police checks on traders its probably won't be long before they do that for staff too.

Been happening for a while now at a lot of shows 

[incident]

49 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Crikey that's up with the Apple app store innit?

 

Yep, and while it wasn't stated as such it'll have to be that 70/30 split occurs after tax - so on that basis a 10 quid burger would return £8.33 after VAT, of which Boomtown net £2.50 and the stallholder gets £5.83 to pay their pitch fee, hire staff, buy/rent equipment, and for fuel, ingredients, etc. Or even less if it's bought using a crew balance.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

6 hours ago, incident said:

 

Yep, and while it wasn't stated as such it'll have to be that 70/30 split occurs after tax - so on that basis a 10 quid burger would return £8.33 after VAT, of which Boomtown net £2.50 and the stallholder gets £5.83 to pay their pitch fee, hire staff, buy/rent equipment, and for fuel, ingredients, etc. Or even less if it's bought using a crew balance.

 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge in this area, which is evidently extensive - to me, anyway. That's real 'drilling down' stuff.

 

I've had a smoke, so maybe the above sounds insane. 

[clarkete]

7 hours ago, incident said:

 

Yep, and while it wasn't stated as such it'll have to be that 70/30 split occurs after tax - so on that basis a 10 quid burger would return £8.33 after VAT, of which Boomtown net £2.50 and the stallholder gets £5.83 to pay their pitch fee, hire staff, buy/rent equipment, and for fuel, ingredients, etc. Or even less if it's bought using a crew balance.

 

Ah, this must be where the expression boom and bust came from. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

1 minute ago, clarkete said:

 

Ah, this must be where the expression boom and bust came from. 

 

That's 'challenging' that statement is.

[4AssedMonkey]

f**king Hell.  Had no idea the festival circuit takes such a cut.  That is ridiculously unsustainable to the point of shooting themselves in the foot.  Without a variety of food and non-food stalls, festivals will be hugely diminished and they are effectively driving them away with this practice.

[gfa]

7 hours ago, incident said:

 

Yep, and while it wasn't stated as such it'll have to be that 70/30 split occurs after tax - so on that basis a 10 quid burger would return £8.33 after VAT, of which Boomtown net £2.50 and the stallholder gets £5.83 to pay their pitch fee, hire staff, buy/rent equipment, and for fuel, ingredients, etc. Or even less if it's bought using a crew balance.

Given how Boomtown does it I would expect pitch fees are significantly lower than other festivals

[DeanoL]

31 minutes ago, gfa said:

Given how Boomtown does it I would expect pitch fees are significantly lower than other festivals

Yeah, the 30% sounds huge but if it's accompanied by lower pitch fees then it's just their version of Glastonbury's variable pitch pricing. Just Glastonbury estimate revenue based on the type of trader to determine a pitch fee.

[incident]

36 minutes ago, gfa said:

Given how Boomtown does it I would expect pitch fees are significantly lower than other festivals

 

Would assume so, yeah, but haven't seen any recent numbers (either for Boomtown or other festivals where they take a cut, or for that matter for Glastonbury and their flat fee).

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

 

Possibly 'management' squeezing blood from a stone. 

 

Would people really want to attend in such numbers for a festival if it went more corporate,? It would (or could) mean a lot more people who would accept that getting up and going for it, to replace the people who drop out because of it. 

[stuie]

14 hours ago, incident said:

As far as I'm aware, all of the FR/LN festivals do this now and have done so for a few years.

 

Traders were taking their own card payments via their sumup's at Wilderness a couple of weeks ago.